Insider's Guide to Energy
The Energy Industry is uniquely evolving as traders are under increasing pressure to manage costs, cash, limits, and risks. The Insider’s Guide to Energy Podcast addresses current and emerging challenges business executives face daily through stories shared from peers and industry experts while covering topics such as innovation, disruptive technologies, and emerging trends.
Insider's Guide to Energy
201 - Solar Power to the People: Policy, Storage, and the Future of Clean Energy
In this episode of Insider’s Guide to Energy, we sit down with Amy Heart, Senior Vice President of Policy at Sunrun, the nation’s leading provider of home solar and battery solutions. Amy shares insights on the transformative role of distributed energy resources in reshaping our power grid. She discusses the critical importance of pairing solar energy with battery storage to enhance grid resilience and meet the growing demand for clean, reliable electricity. Whether you're curious about the rise of virtual power plants or the latest solar policy innovations, this episode is a must-listen.
Amy dives deep into the evolving landscape of solar adoption, addressing key challenges and opportunities. From navigating complex interconnection rules to implementing incentive programs like Massachusetts’ Connected Solutions, she highlights how policy can accelerate the clean energy transition. We also discuss the pressing need to expand solar adoption beyond the current 3-5% of rooftops in the U.S., making it a mainstream solution for homeowners looking to control their energy bills and reduce their environmental footprint.
This conversation also explores how solar technology is changing the energy game for consumers and utilities alike. Learn how cutting-edge programs are empowering homeowners to contribute to grid stability and earn economic rewards while enjoying greater energy independence. Whether you're a homeowner, policymaker, or energy enthusiast, this episode offers valuable insights into the future of solar power, energy storage, and the drive toward a greener, more sustainable future.
We were pleased to host: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amyheart/
Visit our website: https://insidersguidetoenergy.com/
Transcript
00:00:00 Amy Heart
Home solar and batteries are a critical piece of our flexible grid. In the future, the key is how fast will we deploy it to ensure a reliable grid and affordable energy and a clean energy future that benefits everyone.
00:00:18 Chris Sass
Your trusted source for information on the energy transition. This is the Insider's Guide to Energy podcast.
00:00:29 Chris Sass
Welcome to another edition of the Insider’s Guide to Energy. I'm your host Chris Sass, and with me from Sunrun today is senior vice president of policy, Amy Hart. Welcome to our podcast.
00:00:39 Amy Heart
Chris, thanks so much for having me, really happy to be here.
00:00:43 Chris Sass
So I think it makes sense to start. We've had Sun run on. We've talked to someone in the past, but let's start a little bit about before going to you, what is Sunrun?
00:00:52 Amy Heart
Sunrun is the nation's leading provider of home solar and battery solutions, as well as other electrification solutions. So we really started in 2007 and become the leading provider of financing, installation and servicing of home solar and battery.
00:01:12 Amy Heart
Solutions across the country, we are in 22 states, including DC and Puerto Rico.
00:01:18 Chris Sass
Wow, now that that sounded like I was reading the.
00:01:21 Chris Sass
Opening of a.
00:01:22 Chris Sass
Annual report that description of what Sunrun is so as as an industry member.
00:01:29 Chris Sass
Basically.
00:01:30 Chris Sass
Someone's been around for a.
00:01:31 Chris Sass
While.
00:01:33 Chris Sass
How? Who are your customers and who? Who? Who's working with Sunrun?
00:01:38 Amy Heart
Yeah, Chris, it was been really interesting. We actually hit a million customers this year, which was a really exciting milestone for the company. And also just for me personally, I've had the opportunity to work at Sun Run for almost 10 years now to really see the advancement in.
00:01:55 Amy Heart
And being able to reach homeowners and be able to offer these solar and battery solutions and not only just being able to change and expand our product offerings right from solar only to be able to help manage energy bills to now over half over half of the systems that we installed today include a battery attached.
00:02:16 Amy Heart
And so that's really adding resiliency for homeowners. People are really interested in that piece and also and and we'll get into this. But the opportunity to really leverage the heck out of these resources to help the grid.
00:02:28 Amy Heart
As a whole.
00:02:29 Chris Sass
I've got a timely question for.
00:02:31 Chris Sass
I I was talking to a buddy of mine and we're in the industry and we were talking about North Carolina and the recent damage from the Hurricanes and generators and things like that. And and he said, well, you know, you could just get batteries and not necessarily have solar and you would still have backup. Do people ever approach you asking for that? And is that a commercially viable thing to do because you could still buy the power?
00:02:39
MHM.
00:02:50 Chris Sass
At a green time or in the middle of the night when it's cheaper? Is that something?
00:02:54 Chris Sass
People are installing.
00:02:55 Amy Heart
Yeah, and people are certainly asking about it. I think there are certainly companies that are responding to that need. I think from from our standpoint, our certainly our first.
00:03:08 Amy Heart
Entrance into having conversations at the kitchen table is having that long term charging, and that long term stability of a battery. So we're really looking at, you know, we have 1,000,000 customers at this point. So there's a lot of questions about retrofitting those solar only systems to be able to add a battery and then talking about the difference with a customer.
00:03:29 Amy Heart
Of doing a battery only system versus solar paired with batteries. So I would say from Sun Run it's not a product that we're offering today. Really excited to see a lot of other companies in the industry and it's starting to play in that.
00:03:42 Amy Heart
Space, but also certainly something we're looking at, you know, looking at all those potential for the future that is that really becomes important when you're looking at what are the rate designs and what are the interconnection rules and making sure that you have, like you said, being able to charge the battery up at times.
00:04:03 Amy Heart
When you're when it's less expensive for the customer, but also not at a time of peak demand. So making sure that states have the right price signals to drive the the behavior at the right time, but great solutions.
00:04:15 Chris Sass
OK, you you've already you've beat me to a little bit where I was going to ask you next.
00:04:20 Chris Sass
You are in policy and you you suddenly got to policy energy. You can't have a you can't help with to policy. But it was very quick. I think we're within two minutes of the opening of the show. We're already at policy. So I asked you to start by telling us a little bit about whose son is. What is it? A senior vice president of policy do.
00:04:24 Amy Heart
That's what I always do, I know.
00:04:39 Amy Heart
So I have an amazing team.
00:04:42 Amy Heart
That I get to work with.
00:04:44 Amy Heart
So we have a a team of policy experts across that are located across the country and we work with also, I would say our colleagues across the industry. So not only other policy folks where we have alignment within the industry and our trade associations, but also.
00:05:03 Amy Heart
With other stakeholders.
00:05:05 Amy Heart
So, ratepayer advocates, nonprofit organizations who are looking at how do we make sure that homeowners are part of the clean energy future? How do we make sure they have control over their energy bills they can generate and store their own power. But then how does that fit into our overall goals and transitioning to meet soaring energy demands as well as?
00:05:26 Amy Heart
Decarbonize.
00:05:27 Amy Heart
So what does that mean that we do on any given day, it depends on the state. And so there's lots of times, right, the relationship of energy I think is interesting. Working on legislation, right, working on what is the statutory policy in a given state, are there directives to the regulatory bodies and that's when we get on the regulatory.
00:05:47 Amy Heart
Side which is working with Public Service Commission staff.
00:05:51 Amy Heart
In within dockets, those are sort of the two main directives. There's also federal. We can we'll let's just ignore the the federal fees for a hot 2nd. But energy is local, and so that means anything from that legislative directive to regulatory bodies down to the local.
00:06:11 Amy Heart
Jurisdictional level. So what does permitting look like? What does interconnection look like in every single utility? And we can get into this, right? We have 40,000 different jurisdictions across the country.
00:06:23 Amy Heart
That have different rules and processes for permitting and so that is that also takes up a lot of time. So our goal is to make sure homeowners have the ability to generate their own power, have the ability to have resiliency and Peace of Mind with batteries. And then how can we use that to benefit the grid.
00:06:44 Amy Heart
As a whole. And so that's our driving force every day I came to Sun run about 10 years ago and went back to law school late in life, all that stuff, but had been involved in the renewable.
00:06:56 Amy Heart
Energy industry, through a nonprofit organization through city government and really one of the things I'm most proud of at Sunrun is how we work alongside the industry, how we work alongside other stakeholders. Because really, at the end of the day, it's about the individuals, the people, the families.
00:07:16 Amy Heart
You have that that generation and and making sure they're at the forefront of any of our policy.
00:07:22 Chris Sass
So 10 year window gives you a good history. I don't know if it's long enough. I mean to me I I think back of when people wanted to be solar or you were going off the grid, you were kind of a hippie and you wanted to basically live in the woods off the grid. During that 10 years. Have you seen kind of that evolution from it kind of being kind of a radical concept of having solar and powering and green?
00:07:43 Chris Sass
Self at home to being mainstream and are we mainstream right now, or are we still kind of at the corner case?
00:07:49 Amy Heart
We it is.
00:07:50 Amy Heart
One of the most exciting things to see that evolution of when I first got introduced to what is solar was through a nonprofit organization. We did education for homeowners at that time about two decades ago, the price of.
00:08:07 Amy Heart
Photovoltaics, the price of a solar electric system, was between 20 and $25 a Watt, and that's when we were doing education for homeowners. So I am so happy to be where we're at today, right? It has. Absolutely. The price is coming down the industry. That's that's really been able to grow.
00:08:25 Amy Heart
Because of all different investment advancements, whether that's technology, whether that's efficiency costs, industry financing savings, a whole bunch of different tools have come forward for homeowners. That has brought the price down, made it more affordable, stable policies and always bring it back to policy. Chris, right stable policies is a key.
00:08:45 Amy Heart
In all of that, so it is definitely more mainstream.
00:08:50 Amy Heart
We are not there yet, right? I think what is the total addressable rooftop space at 3 to 5% I think of the rooftops in the in the country have solar like.
00:09:02 Amy Heart
That is built environment space that we could be putting solar on and so we have a long way to go and you look at the soaring electricity demand, right, we're going to need all of these resources deployed at record pace.
00:09:14 Chris Sass
But I mean, that's policy, right? So if I look at somewhere like Hawaii, they don't necessarily want more rooftops, right?
00:09:22 Chris Sass
So how is the policy keeping up? Well, yeah, you sure? But it's it's it's. It's complex, right?
00:09:27 Amy Heart
It's come.
00:09:28 Chris Sass
And and so how is the policy? I mean, you know, I think of California, Hawaii, and there's certain other pockets where I.
00:09:34 Chris Sass
Can see the solar pockets.
00:09:36 Chris Sass
And then you talked about all those jurisdictions that you have to manage across the country. I think you said 40,000 was the number it.
00:09:41 Chris Sass
Was it?
00:09:41 Chris Sass
Was tremendous. How do you manage something like that to get the average homeowner that just wants to flip the light switch on and pay their bill?
00:09:51 Chris Sass
To a point where they're comfortable with solar, so you get from 3% to, you know 50% penetration or some huge number.
00:09:57 Amy Heart
Yeah. And that's been I think that's been our sweet spot at Sun Run is the the mission has always been as much as you think behind the curtain energy is complicated, the electricity markets are complicated. You know RTO's down to down to the homeowners complicated rate design getting it exactly perfect at the end of the day.
00:10:16 Amy Heart
It's not complicated. You said it exactly right. The customer just wants to be able to turn on their lights. They know they're going to have power, but they also have control over what their energy bill is.
00:10:28 Amy Heart
And so that's a pretty simple when you when you think about it from that perspective, it's making it putting the customer at the center. So how do you make that more affordable? How do you bring financing to the customer? How do you provide performance guarantees, service, warranties to make sure that they understand their system but they don't need to be?
00:10:49 Amy Heart
The the Maybe the retired engineer from 20 years ago who had to learn how to install his own system and maintain his system, right? What are the different products and services now?
00:11:00 Amy Heart
That help a customer have confidence in their system and and be compensated for that. So that's kind of the sort of the business side of things. And I think being able to crack that code and have that conversation with the customer in mind of like what do they want from their energy system, what do what controls do they they want to have has been really key.
00:11:21 Amy Heart
In the evolving market, on the policy side, we are now seeing, OK, how do you go from a, a, a system of maybe what you would consider static systems, right? Solar only systems to solar paired with batteries.
00:11:38 Amy Heart
That becomes immensely more powerful. Dispatchable power, and Chris, I would I would, I guess, argue with the premise that we that.
00:11:47 Amy Heart
Any state is saying we don't need more or want more. Every single state and legislate like everyone right is dealing with. We are going to need more generation.
00:11:54 Chris Sass
I think it's.
00:11:55 Chris Sass
Just maybe it's unfair, but it's a complex place right now for for solar, right?
00:12:00 Amy Heart
We every state is saying they need they have soaring electricity demands. How are they going to meet the electricity demands? We have rooftops, we have homeowners who are willing to make that private investment. Let's use those resources to meet that demand. We're going to need it all. So you look at Hawaii.
00:12:16 Amy Heart
Earlier this week, there was an announcement that the larger scale projects that the utilities had been counting on and had been projecting in their in their IRP saying, Oh no, we've got large scale generation happening. Those are not happening now. What are we going to do in the interim? We don't have a robust distributed energy resources.
00:12:36 Amy Heart
Program ad ER virtual power plant program in Hawaii.
00:12:40 Amy Heart
Why not get that set up right away so you can say a utility can say we have a peak power demand tomorrow from 4:00 to 6:00 PM, where do we get those electrons? You don't need to wait 20 years or even five years to put in a power plant. We can send that dispatch tomorrow, right? You have those.
00:12:59 Amy Heart
Resource that those electrons literally sitting in batteries in individuals homes and they're willing to share it, you know, and be part of that future, so I think.
00:13:11 Amy Heart
It's understanding that clear vision, if I can, can I give you an example that I I love to, I'd love to cite to this example in Texas, I know lots. There's lots of debate like, you know, Texas is, is it an energy example or not a you know and it's an example in different ways from my personal experience I have the opportunity.
00:13:16
Sure. Please.
00:13:32 Amy Heart
And the privilege.
00:13:33 Amy Heart
To sit on the task force for aggregated distributed energy resources. So a couple of years ago the Commission, the Public Utility Commission in Texas after winter, storm Yuri, seeing the demand of electricity growing, said we have a clear vision. We need every electron and we know that we do not have a current pathway.
00:13:55 Amy Heart
For distributed resources to inject those electrons into the into the grid and help ERCOT.
00:14:01 Amy Heart
Meet its demands.
00:14:03 Amy Heart
Within getting they got all the stakeholders together. They said you got a task force. Let's get a pilot going within nine months. They had a pilot.
00:14:11 Amy Heart
Right. So when you have a clear vision of saying we have some problems to solve and it's going to take a whole bunch of different solutions, you all get in a room the utility that RTO, the the Commission, the generators, the utilities, the market, right, the market providers like some run the customer advocates and we know what the what the goal is.
00:14:31 Amy Heart
You can act quickly, especially if you know.
00:14:35 Amy Heart
We are going to run into objects.
00:14:37 Amy Heart
And so the point is get going. Discover what those challenges are. You can work through it, but the speed of which we can actually work on deploying and using these distributed resources, it is unparalleled and we're going to need that part of this flexible grid puzzle.
00:14:56 Amy Heart
As we look at our growing needs across.
00:14:59 Amy Heart
The country.
00:15:00 Chris Sass
Now you've mentioned a number of times and you you you alluded to a transition to more battery going with the solar storage that that seems to be the trend. What's the gate from keeping people to do that? It's just the pure economics of putting a battery in or you know they thinking the power wall on the expense or are they you know any battery system is going to be too expensive or is it that they want to be able to sell the power back into the grid and there's no facility to do that in their region?
00:15:24 Chris Sass
What are some of the gates keeping people from really pairing solar and battery at the consumer level at the?
00:15:30 Chris Sass
Level.
00:15:31 Amy Heart
Yeah, I think we have seen a, a huge difference, right? A huge, huge change in the last couple of years. And Chris, I think the main driver from a customer perspective, what we here at the kitchen table is that Peace of Mind. And so as you can imagine, the interest in in a state like Florida or Texas might be a different conversation.
00:15:51 Amy Heart
Then a state that's in like a Colorado or an Illinois where you traditionally have a, a, a stable grid, right? Or you haven't had as many power outages or or weather related events. But everybody across the country is dealing with more of those outage.
00:16:06 Amy Heart
And wanting to be able to make sure they're resilient, that's the main driver of somebody asking about batteries. The what gets them over the hump and you're exactly right. The barrier is the cost. It's a little bit more you're saying, OK.
00:16:20 Amy Heart
Do I need?
00:16:21 Amy Heart
That do you know how often am I really going to be out of power?
00:16:24 Amy Heart
What? What can I think about?
00:16:26 Amy Heart
What do I need to think about for my pocketbook and adding a battery? What has been extremely helpful is having the the policy in place to be able to say ohh. By the way, they're yes, this is the cost of the battery, but if you're in Massachusetts, you have an amazing program called connected.
00:16:44 Amy Heart
Solutions and if you are willing to share a portion of your Battery 30 to 60 * a year if you're called on, you can actually get an additional economic payment every year, right that you're enrolled for for a five year commitment. That helps get people over that hump. That helps with that upfront financial investment.
00:17:05 Amy Heart
And it's a just a different proposition for the grid, right. You're actually providing a pay for performance?
00:17:12 Amy Heart
So you are paying customers for sharing those electrons at specific times when the utility needs it. It really has become a a win win for the grid. And I point out connected solutions they have. It's a great program where they do a cost benefit analysis of how much they're saving by using the batteries that are in homes.
00:17:32 Amy Heart
Instead of going to the wholesale market at times of peak power, so we're able to bring those economic signals right, those payments to the customer and that helps them get over the hump. And if we have more, we need more of those, right? So this is no longer, oh, we need a storage and.
00:17:50 Amy Heart
This is no get the signal in the program right? So you can help a customer have that backup power, but you're actually getting the grid is getting the additional benefit of having the solar or having the solar energy being deployed at specific times. So when you have those programs set up, that's where we're seeing storage take off.
00:18:10 Amy Heart
Illinois has a storage program right storage with. It's now shifting to a a big storage market in Illinois that's going to be able to help address high PJM prices for Illinois if if they they if they create a peak power reduction program. If you look at programs that could be developed, you can create an.
00:18:30 Amy Heart
Matter in those communities and additional payment in the communities that have been disproportionately impacted by outages.
00:18:38 Amy Heart
A state like Michigan.
00:18:39 Amy Heart
That has legislation that's proposed to create a virtual power plant program with an additional payment to customers that are in the areas that have been most impacted by outages. Michigan is the number 2 state in the country for outages and they have no battery program in homes. It's absurd, right?
00:18:59 Amy Heart
So like what?
00:19:00 Amy Heart
Can we do to get that in homes where you're not having the utilities have to pay for something?
00:19:05 Amy Heart
And then charge all the ratepayers for it, right? It's putting the it's keeping the customers in the driver's seat.
00:19:13
Correct.
00:19:13 Amy Heart
I think sorry, get passionate about how quick this it's we get really excited about the potential like we've seen this work and it's working well.
00:19:20 Chris Sass
It opens some.
00:19:21 Chris Sass
Some questions up right, so I I get the programs.
00:19:22
Yeah.
00:19:26 Chris Sass
I also get if I look at the percentage of solar deployed, you're getting early movers. People are excited about that. So if I'm the average person.
00:19:36 Chris Sass
I really don't know much about electricity. I may not know what a battery system is. I mean, I I conceptually, I'm sure they all seem solar on people's.
00:19:43 Chris Sass
Houses.
00:19:45 Chris Sass
So now I've become.
00:19:47 Chris Sass
You know, a blind person going to someone saying, hey, design this thing for me and sell me this thing. And if we've watched the news in the last couple of years, there's been a little skepticism of.
00:19:56 Chris Sass
How solar can be sold?
00:19:58 Chris Sass
So how is policy gonna help protect people? So my parents, when they decide to sign up for solar system and know nothing about it, nor did they want to. They just want to save on their energy bill that they're not sold to Bill of goods. Cause there's been some horror stories not so long ago in.
00:20:11 Chris Sass
The solar industry.
00:20:12 Chris Sass
Of what happens? How do we fix that problem?
00:20:15 Amy Heart
Chris, I'm so glad you brought this up. This is near and dear to my heart and and our heart at Sun Run. As far as taking, making sure that the customer is again at the center, but we have decades long relationships with customers, right to make sure those systems are working for the needs of of what the the homeowner has. So I want to call out a couple of things that are happening.
00:20:37 Amy Heart
So as this market is growing and the opportunity is growing, we have to make sure that we build that customer confidence in that their system that they've invested in is working. They know who to call, but also what are those customer protections on the front end. So I have the opportunity to work with the national solar energy.
00:20:57 Amy Heart
Industries Association they are really at the forefront of two things, one advancing.
00:21:03 Amy Heart
Solutions.
00:21:05 Amy Heart
That can help do that education and simplifying the process through requiring disclosures so you can a customer can compare apples to apples right model legislation for states that want to make sure they have the the robust protection for customers but still embracing this this future technology.
00:21:24 Amy Heart
The other piece though is maybe some specific examples on that solar sails. So SIA has partnered with ANSI, which is the American National Standards Institute. If you talk to any licensing board across the country, they know who antsy is. It's a well respected agency. CIA has partnered with antsy to develop.
00:21:45 Amy Heart
Standards.
00:21:46 Amy Heart
That can serve at from a voluntary perspective, but also the basis of legislation in states, the one that will be hopefully passed and adopted is final final in its process will be adopted by the end of the year, is called the Consumer protection standard, and it would require solar sales training, an annual training.
00:22:06 Amy Heart
To what needs to be required and provided to custom.
00:22:09 Amy Heart
Numbers that on day one can be a voluntary expect, well, an expectation of folks who are members of trade associations, but more importantly can serve as the basis of a solar licensing in states. So to your point, like this started this industry started years ago.
00:22:30 Amy Heart
But how can we advance and how do we make sure those protections are in place?
00:22:34 Amy Heart
So you know who you're talking to. You know, if you have a a license or you don't have a license, right, depending on what your behavior is. So we're fully supportive of all of those. Those initiatives from the industry level and they need to happen. And then from that policy perspective, right, legislators can enact that those requirements at the at the state level.
00:22:55 Amy Heart
And we would certainly support support all of that to build that customer confidence. But that solar sales license and that that accreditation is one that's coming in the beginning of 2025 and I think will be a huge.
00:23:08 Amy Heart
Benefit to the to the industry from some.
00:23:10 Chris Sass
So you would expect that a solar salesperson would have on their website or whatever that they're credited. And if you're a consumer or your consumer protection would be to only deal with agencies that have some sort of training and accreditation that.
00:23:22 Amy Heart
That's right. And and some states have States and programs we've seen develop requirements, right. You need to have a badge with your license number. There's a spot where you can go and look up. Hey, this is the person I'm talking to. Are they actually licensed? Right. You have that that doesn't exist. There's some voluntary things that.
00:23:42 Amy Heart
Exist right now, but being able to have a standard.
00:23:47 Amy Heart
That is in an accredited standard that states can refer to when creating some of those rules just helps build that confidence and quite honestly, a way to keep track right and and control who is selling or not selling at the time.
00:24:01 Chris Sass
So let me ask a loaded question. I understand that you're in the solar and storage business, but a lot of energy is used by home heat and heat pumps and things like that. If you were on a limited budget, is there an order of which things that you should consider?
00:24:18 Chris Sass
Bringing in order to make sure that you have both the power and the economics that you might want into the future because you know having an old heating system.
00:24:27 Chris Sass
May be detrimental to your bill as.
00:24:29 Chris Sass
Well.
00:24:30 Chris Sass
Certainly it is for greenhouse gases if they care about that, but how do you handle that? Because there's so many levers you could pull to get an outcome.
00:24:39
Mm-hmm.
00:24:39 Chris Sass
That's the hierarchy you know of what a homeowner should consider.
00:24:45 Chris Sass
Maybe it's different because of policy and state. Maybe it's not always the same because of climate, but I'm looking for your input of what you see.
00:24:51 Amy Heart
Yeah, Chris, what a good question. I will tell you as someone who two years ago, the hot water, my hot water heater went out. So that's when we got the air source, heat pump, hot water heater. That's when you do it. That's when a homeowner does it right, is usually when there's a crisis, when something happens, that's usually the order.
00:25:08 Chris Sass
Like absolutely.
00:25:08 Chris Sass
The worst time right? Cause you really have full information. You have your plumber that's willing to install the thing and they may not know about, you know, the heat pump version they're trying to give you. You know this this whole 55 gallon thing that they've got an inventor.
00:25:09 Amy Heart
Right it is.
00:25:17 Amy Heart
You're exactly right.
00:25:20 Chris Sass
Sorry and you just want hot water for your showers and go to work Monday morning. You don't care. And so that seems like kind of a reactive approach.
00:25:30
Ah.
00:25:30 Amy Heart
Absolutely. But I'm giving that as an instance of the vast majority of customers, that's their current process of dealing.
00:25:36 Amy Heart
With ohh what?
00:25:36 Chris Sass
Yes.
00:25:37 Amy Heart
What am I going to? How am I going to upgrade my home? It's in the order of what fails first, right, and and and so I. I think that's not a good answer, but I think that's what we run across and and I think that's the reality but.
00:25:50 Amy Heart
I think there's there's two pieces that I think is is interesting from someone's perspective.
00:25:56 Amy Heart
Creating that relationship, and I think that's why we're, that's our interest in making sure the homeowner will know here. Oh, I came to you because I I want solar, but I also have a question about.
00:26:08 Amy Heart
Well, what's the most efficient way to do heating? Do I need to get away from my forced air natural gas for like how would I get off of natural gas heating? Should I do a heat pump that you have a partner who can connect the dots of all of those?
00:26:21 Amy Heart
Questions. So I don't think there is an order where you should first do XY and Z. That's just not how customers are approaching it and they may need to finance things out over time, right? And be able to make a plan with your provider. I think that's where some run and other part other parts of the industry can start to offer.
00:26:42 Amy Heart
Similar products, if you have those long term relationships with your customers, this should not be a one and.
00:26:48 Amy Heart
One right, none of this. This should be a long term relationship, so they say, Oh well, I have. I I'm moving to an induction stove. I would actually love. Now, now that I have a higher electricity bill, what's my game plan to produce my own power or oh, next year I want to take advantage of the the EV tax credits. Right. I'm thinking about a new EV. What is the other things that I need to?
00:27:08 Amy Heart
That I need to do so lots of times we have somebody who said I'm about to buy an EV. So I'm interested in solar. I think we need to have the strong policies in place as well that allow for.
00:27:21 Amy Heart
Solar and batteries, knowing that well in a year in a year or two, I'm.
00:27:26 Amy Heart
Going to get an EV.
00:27:27 Amy Heart
Right, that that you allow for that window of growing electricity or my kids are going to go to school. And so I don't. I'm not expecting of my electricity to change that much. So I I I think every household is different, which is why you need a good.
00:27:41 Amy Heart
Partner who's who's providing those resources, those resources and information on the other side, I think one of the benefits of having the federal policies and the Inflation Reduction Act come out is that there have been so many.
00:27:57 Amy Heart
Educational pieces. A lot of nonprofit partners, a lot of the programs that have come out, there's a lot of education that's coming with it. So customers at least know to ask the questions. And I think that's starting to get out there. And because there are so many, you're now able to say to a homeowner, Oh well, do you?
00:28:14 Amy Heart
Know.
00:28:16 Amy Heart
Your your.
00:28:17 Amy Heart
Furnace looks old. You also have the opportunity to update. There are these other invest these other tax credits that are available through the Inflation Reduction Act. So having I think the collection.
00:28:28 Amy Heart
Of programs, if that makes sense. Collection of programs and incentives that are have all been released at the same time has been super helpful for homeowners to start planning that.
00:28:39 Chris Sass
OK, we've got just a couple of minutes left here and I think we'd be remiss to not flip it around and look from the grid side, we talked about homeowners quite a bit. Let's talk a little bit about the policies that impact the grid and and what's happening at the state level or regionally or you know across the whole country on the grid.
00:28:59 Chris Sass
But what are you seeing that's impacting deployment and how is the policy shifting there?
00:29:05 Amy Heart
Yeah, I think that.
00:29:08 Amy Heart
We mentioned this at the at the top of the call. The conversations I had, even just the the last two weeks, whether it's with federal elected officials or at the state level, everybody's talking about soaring electricity demand and how many more weather related outages they're they're going to see or if they will.
00:29:27 Amy Heart
See an increase.
00:29:28 Amy Heart
Of weather events and what that means for the grid. So I think 2 two pieces to that.
00:29:34 Amy Heart
There's a recognition, and depending on where you where you fall right, you need every electron. What? Where I what? I hope that means is that there is an openness and an urgency to find pathways that may not have existed before for distributed resources to help the grid like we're here.
00:29:55 Amy Heart
To help and to support the grid. And yes, it's great that customers are it's customer centered, they're in control but.
00:30:03 Amy Heart
Is short sighted of us not to have rate design not to have programs that really leverage the most out of these systems. So and and also like use it to exploit and and compensate it fairly. So let me give you an example. We're so stuck in this in this path of looking backwards.
00:30:23 Amy Heart
On what are the costs to the grid? We have conversations every day where we in certain states we have smart inverter functions. We're able to interconnect with the grid without.
00:30:35
Operates.
00:30:36 Amy Heart
We have power control systems. We're able to install a system that's taking the load off right. Immediately we install the home, solar and battery system helps the grid on day one from an energy perspective, but we just avoided a transformer upgrade. We know Transformers. There's a supply chain issue with a lot of these technologies. We just are we were able.
00:30:56 Amy Heart
Because we used our own technology and partnership with the utility, we avoided an 8000 to $10,000 transformer upgrade.
00:31:03 Amy Heart
That's great. Let's do that everywhere. But also let's do the math. So we know that's a benefit to ratepayers right now, those aren't being tracked as how these distributed resources can actually be a financial benefit we have. There's been lots of studies, lots of research on how it can do it, but let's get the math right. So we're not having this.
00:31:23 Amy Heart
Argument about our distributed resources helping the grid or not like we've moved beyond that right? We need too many electrons. We have too many issues with building out the grid and like the now the solution is just.
00:31:32 Chris Sass
So.
00:31:37 Amy Heart
Getting the interconnection rules right, getting them out right, getting the programs in place to use it.
00:31:41 Chris Sass
What percentage of the states can I?
00:31:43 Chris Sass
Sell power back.
00:31:45 Chris Sass
If I generate surplus power in my home, can I pump it back into the grid? Is that getting to be universal or is that still a real tall order?
00:31:52 Amy Heart
Yeah. No, there's there's a, I would say there's a policy in almost every state that you, there's some sort of compensation. The question is just how much and how easy it is for.
00:32:01 Amy Heart
A customer to.
00:32:03 Amy Heart
Budget it and be able to.
00:32:06 Amy Heart
Estimate what their return is, right? So as you get more complicated rate designs, it's harder to manage. But if you get the rate design right, you are deploying those electrons at times of the day where it really matters, right? So California has shifted to a battery first rate design, right, because you have very specific peak.
00:32:25 Amy Heart
Times of the day it's a Peaky time of use. You need a good time. You need a good rate design to.
00:32:32 Amy Heart
Leverage those resources at the right time and send the signal. But then you also need these virtual power plant programs to use those electrons as a power plant. These are generated electrons that can go out at specific time. So you need that that combination and then and then you'll see the deployment grow.
00:32:52 Chris Sass
Have we gone to the point where homeowners, because Americans tend to move a lot or haven't historically moved from location to location, is power a part of a home buyer's decision? Yet is that something that people are looking at, the cost of power when they're looking at homes?
00:33:06 Chris Sass
And does it vary from community to community or simply because you have?
00:33:09 Chris Sass
Solar.
00:33:11 Amy Heart
I mean, certainly our experience, we have a whole team of specialists that when one of our customers goes to sell their home, they will. When our when our customers go to sell a home, they let us know we work with the realtor on how you make that transition happen smoothly. So you have that, that new customer is able to understand the new homeowner.
00:33:31 Amy Heart
Understands what's the value that they're getting. I don't know if that's been one of the.
00:33:36 Amy Heart
Main drivers of what's the cost of of going into a home, but certainly energy bills. The increasing cost of energy bills is front and center to everyone's mind, right? It's when you talk about food, housing, energy costs, that's top of mind, which is driving inquiries and looking for solutions. And we need to make sure.
00:33:57 Amy Heart
Customers have solutions to manage their energy bills. At the end of the day.
00:34:02 Chris Sass
Well, we've covered a lot of ground.
00:34:03 Chris Sass
In a short period of time.
00:34:06 Chris Sass
You know, as we bring this call to an end, I want to thank you for coming on the podcast and sharing with us. Is there anything that I missed that you would really wanted to share with the audience? We've got, you know, any thoughts you wanna close with?
00:34:16 Amy Heart
I think the one I really appreciate the time. I love. Yeah, the conversation that went all over the map. But I always try to bring it back to policy. I I think the the one piece that I am sort of aggressively optimistic about and not cautiously optimistic but aggressively optimistic that there is a recognition.
00:34:35 Amy Heart
That these resources that customers want and are investing.
00:34:40 Amy Heart
Are helping the grid and can and can do more for the grid and so like coming together and finding a solution I think also seeing the polling that the solar Energy Industries Association has done 87% of America supports federal incentives to deploy more solar and energy.
00:35:00 Amy Heart
Storage.
00:35:02 Amy Heart
Pulls up like. This is something that at a time right like in this this fall like we want to make.
00:35:08 Amy Heart
Sure that we're.
00:35:09 Amy Heart
We know this is a direction that we all want to go, regardless of what community you live in, and so I think we just need to find the path to get these solutions out there and then put it to work for the grid and we're.
00:35:21 Amy Heart
Really excited about The future?
00:35:23 Chris Sass
Well, Amy, I appreciate you taking the time and sharing your ideas with us today. I look forward to hearing more from you in the future. Thanks for being a guest on an insiders guide to energy.
00:35:31 Amy Heart
Thanks so much Chris.
00:35:32 Chris Sass
For audience, we hope you like this content. If you have comments, thoughts, you wanna add comments, don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel. Put your comments there or put them on our LinkedIn thread and we'll see you again next time on the Insider’s Guide to Energy. Bye for now.