198 - Unlocking Rooftop Solar Power for Data Centers: Innovative Energy Solutions by InRange

InRange Energy, led by CEO John Mushriqui, is pioneering a solution to a pervasive problem in the energy sector: the massive underutilization of warehouse rooftops. Currently, rooftops around the world, particularly in commercial warehouses, are mostly unused. With data centers increasingly demanding clean energy, Mushriqui and his team at InRange see a unique opportunity to meet this need by converting these rooftops into distributed solar farms. Their model enables commercial rooftops to serve as flexible energy assets, harnessing solar power to generate substantial energy and sell any surplus to nearby enterprises, transforming rooftops into productive, sustainable energy sources. 

The InRange model operates through a smart, data-driven approach that streamlines the complex process of grid integration and regulatory compliance. Initially focusing on the UK market, the company navigates local regulations to export surplus solar energy directly to the grid, often at more competitive rates than traditional sources. By partnering with landlords and large tenants, InRange’s innovative financing solutions make the transition to rooftop solar feasible and cost-effective. The company’s goal is to create a seamless energy-sharing model that benefits landlords through increased property value and attracts large energy buyers, such as data centers, seeking sustainable energy solutions. 

With its technology-driven approach, InRange has already seen success in partnerships with major clients, including prominent retailers and data centers in the UK. Their innovative model not only reduces energy costs for businesses but also supports the global shift toward sustainable energy. As InRange plans further expansion across Europe, and potentially into North America, they’re setting a strong example of how traditional real estate assets can evolve into integral parts of a cleaner, distributed energy grid.

We were pleased to host: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mushriqui/

Visit our website: https://insidersguidetoenergy.com/

Transcript

00:00:00 John Mushriqui 

Warehouses around the world are underutilized by 95%. 

00:00:08 John Mushriqui 

In the US, warehouses can generate 200 terawatt hours for filling 100% of data center demand. Imagine the potential if we can fully utilize these rooftops. 

00:00:23 Prelegent 2 

Broadcasting from Washington, DC, This is insiders guide to energy. 

00:00:37 Chris Sass 

Welcome to another edition of the Insiders Guide to Energy. I'm your host Chris Sass, and with me as co-host Jeff McCauley. Jeff, what do we have happening today, Chris, it's great to be here. As always, we're talking about another innovative solar financing and deployment model on an international stage with us today. We have John Mashiki, CEO and founder of in range. John. 

00:00:59 Chris Sass 

Welcome to the show. Tell us a little bit about the company and what you're trying to achieve. 

00:01:05 John Mushriqui 

Thank you, Jeff. Well, in Rangers, the enterprise power procurement platform where we turn commercial rooftops into a new flexible energy asset class. Taking a look at the problem with the commercial rooftops underutilized globally underneath you know 10%. 

00:01:24 John Mushriqui 

What we look to do is fully utilize these rooftops and use them not just for self consumption, but to aggregate the excess energy and supply to nearby commercial customers. 

00:01:34 

Yes. 

00:01:36 Chris Sass 

Great. And John, for folks listening in the US, This will be a familiar idea under 2 structures, 1 being net metering or or net energy billing, but of different names in the US and another might be community solar. Your primary sites are initially international, is that right? Tell us a little bit about the markets. 

00:01:56 Chris Sass 

And the regulatory construct under which you're doing this? 

00:02:00 John Mushriqui 

Sure. I mean, yes, we are currently operational in the UK looking to expand in the Netherlands and in several other countries in Europe. And quite simply, we are using the current regulation in the market where we're able to take the surplus energy, sleeve it through the existing grid network. 

00:02:21 John Mushriqui 

Into other off takers of energy as opposed to them buying it from a large scale solar. They buy it from what we call distributed solar Farm off the top of these rooftops. 

00:02:35 Chris Sass 

So why is this new? It seems so logical, right? Oversize the system or size it to fill the roof. If that exceeds the load, sell it back to the grid. No problem. What? Why is this hard? Why is it new? 

00:02:49 John Mushriqui 

It is not new, it is hard, but it's not new. What we've done basically and and I think we were, if I quote A Wall Street Journal feature of in range you know we've basically brought the most simple technology solar panels and rooftops and put them together. It is hard because there is. 

00:03:08 John Mushriqui 

Multiple stakes. 

00:03:08 John Mushriqui 

Holders every rooftop, there's a difference between every rooftop and and the other. The unit economics don't pan out currently within this model, but if you ask any large energy buyer as a data center, I'm going to aggregate excess energy from commercial rooftops and sell it to you. 

00:03:29 John Mushriqui 

The first impressions they will laugh at you. They will laugh at you because they think that's not a lot. That's a drop in the bucket for us. That's first of all. Second of all, it is extremely complex to get. 

00:03:40 John Mushriqui 

That. 

00:03:41 John Mushriqui 

But if you take a look at the surplus energy that equates to 100% of data center demand. 

00:03:46 John Mushriqui 

In. 

00:03:46 John Mushriqui 

The US and in the UK. 

00:03:48 

You can. 

00:03:49 John Mushriqui 

So how can you streamline that process? How can you get the multiple stakeholders for it to be a win win situation between landlord, between tenant and offtaker of energy? And it all boils down to us to financial equation. 

00:04:03 Jeff McAulay 

And there's certain size rooftops where the economics work, where you have so many square meters or, you know, there's got to be an economy of scale to make it worthwhile. So what size commercial building are? 

00:04:13 Jeff McAulay 

We looking at. 

00:04:16 John Mushriqui 

Of course, we we like to look at, you know, rooftops that are 100,000 square foot of size and. 

00:04:23 John Mushriqui 

Above. 

00:04:24 John Mushriqui 

So larger square square foot on on that rooftop. But it's not just about the size. The other metric that goes into is how much is behind the meter. 

00:04:35 John Mushriqui 

And how much is exported to nearby energy customers? So for example, where you have 5% behind the meter? 

00:04:44 John Mushriqui 

And you have 95% export that is such a hard asset to unlock. 

00:04:49 John Mushriqui 

But when you have a different mix where it's 40605050, the unit economics start to improve and pan out. 

00:04:58 Jeff McAulay 

And then in the US, interconnect has always been a problem. You know going it sounds like a great idea. But then when you go to the paperwork and start working on it, it is a long process, even if it's fairly streamlined to make this actually work. How is this different than maybe the UK or some of the other markets that you're looking to? 

00:05:17 Jeff McAulay 

Sure. 

00:05:18 John Mushriqui 

Yeah. So, I mean, if you take a look in the UK, for example, DNO or distribution network operation connections by law are required. 

00:05:29 John Mushriqui 

Three months. So they need to respond within a three month time frame. 

00:05:33 John Mushriqui 

If that if that makes any. 

00:05:34 John Mushriqui 

Sense. 

00:05:37 John Mushriqui 

The way we we believe in streamlining this process is a data play, the ability to be able to share data with distribution network operates ahead of time. The buildings that want to be connected and see how this comes out for them from an overall designing and planning. 

00:05:53 John Mushriqui 

Perspective. So there's an area that has congestion, for example, that they don't want that export we roll out on that perspective. But there's another important aspect as well. If you want to talk about interconnection and grid connection, if we are able to manage that, this asset class becomes part of what we call security supply. So on a plan and designer is designing. 

00:06:14 John Mushriqui 

Puts that into their into their plan. 

00:06:16 John Mushriqui 

Then you reduce the congestion that's coming from the transmission level to the distribution level, hence improve the grid connection process. So it's not just about, you know, project financing solar and installing it from our perspective it's it starts out with data and how do you accelerate this process with data for both the decision maker on the financial side. 

00:06:37 John Mushriqui 

But for the grid connection as well. 

00:06:41 Chris Sass 

It sounds wonderful and I just want to make sure I heard you right that by law, interconnection can't exceed 3 months in the UK, is that right? 

00:06:53 John Mushriqui 

For them to for them to give you a grid. 

00:06:55 John Mushriqui 

Connection offer they. 

00:06:56 John Mushriqui 

Have three months on the distribution network level. Let's just be clear. Not not on, not not. 

00:07:02 John Mushriqui 

On transmission level and that's one of the advantages that we see in this. So if you take a look, you're competing with 100 megawatts solar farm. How long is it going to take you to build 100 MW solar farm and get the interconnection versus the aggregated? 

00:07:14 John Mushriqui 

You know, 100 buildings at one MW each. 

00:07:15 

Hmm. 

00:07:18 Chris Sass 

That that seems to be a very rational and reasonable approach, and maybe something that's possible in lower solar penetration markets like the UK. We see that there is strong pushback as you increase the level of solar on a feeder or in a market to the point where you're not allowed to export at all in in extreme cases. 

00:07:37 Chris Sass 

Like Hawaii, but it sounds like with a collaborative approach with the distribution system operator, you can actually find places where they're willing to take excess generation. And it's not limiting your deployments. 

00:07:53 John Mushriqui 

First of all, I think a collaborative proof approach is key to to this with the system operator with the energy buyers, but I think I mean the point to clarity is although we're using what I call like in the UK, you're using the tube or the subway to transport energy from point A to point B, that is going to that. 

00:08:13 John Mushriqui 

Be customer right there so that the customer is on the same distribution network level. In essence they can be reducing the grid and playing a more important impact for that operator. 

00:08:25 John Mushriqui 

Which requires collaboration and coordination. 

00:08:28 Chris Sass 

Yes. And there's another key stakeholder which you mentioned briefly, which is the the the retailer or who is the intermediary through which you're sleeping. The excess power, is that going straight to the wholesale market? Is it going back to a utility or a, you know, load serving entity, how does that work? 

00:08:46 John Mushriqui 

Yeah. So the the way we operate is we operate with your existing retailer as an energy buyer that we sleep the energy through them. 

00:08:57 John Mushriqui 

Designation to expire, so whether it's data center Y or retail or X in designation to to that to that buyer. So if if your retailer is billing you $10.00 or £10 a month and we're selling them five, they would just deduct it and we would build them the five directly. 

00:09:16 Chris Sass 

M. 

00:09:18 Chris Sass 

It come, come back to the math for us because part of the reason why I think this isn't more common in the US is you might be able to sell power behind the meter for 10/20 cents a kWh and in many markets it's at a 10th of that for the wholesale market. So it's a. 

00:09:38 Chris Sass 

It's a huge difference between the value capture in retail versus wholesale. So if you're selling 40, fifty, 60% back to the grid, how does that actually fund enough to finance the? 

00:09:54 Chris Sass 

Project. 

00:09:56 John Mushriqui 

We and in range we cover the blended rate. That's why I said that mix between behind the meter and export is is important. So for us we look at the electron, whether behind the meter or export as an electron and what's important for us, what is that blended rate and how does that feel feed into the unit economics of a project the. 

00:10:17 John Mushriqui 

There are the payback and and the return and that blended rate is what has to drive that. So 1 is about that blended rate. But then the other point is how do you? 

00:10:27 John Mushriqui 

Eliminate and reduce these costs. If you really want to make this, what we call and we have prudence and new energy, asset class or enterprise energy customers, you have to be able to reduce that transaction cost of distributed energy. If you compare the transaction cost of distributed energy versus utility scale, you're going to find that there's circle of around 30 to 40%. 

00:10:48 John Mushriqui 

Cost difference and for us. 

00:10:51 John Mushriqui 

Automating that process, the end to end process from the feasibility to the project financing. 

00:10:57 John Mushriqui 

Is how you're able to. 

00:11:01 John Mushriqui 

Reduce that cost and compete on utility scale level. 

00:11:06 Chris Sass 

Great. Tell us more about the role of technology because it seems like it's not just the business model innovation. It's not just the structural, the contracting, the multi stakeholder engagement, it's it's some sort of technology platform that you have that makes that process easier. 

00:11:22 John Mushriqui 

Yeah, I mean to technology is what we use that all of the nice stuff that you just listed, the contract and the project financing the sale of. 

00:11:30 John Mushriqui 

And so on. And it starts from the feasibility of the project and what assets we look at. We look at distributed energy or buildings as a portfolio. We're not interested in one building. So when you work with a tenant or a landlord that has 1000 plus buildings, how are you able to analyze these buildings and what is the building that you supposed to go start with, rollout strategy, plan strategy? 

00:11:50 John Mushriqui 

And so on. And how does that fit into that marketplace, into the offtaker and that uses our platform to be able to analyze that. Now there's a lot of people that do that analysis, but when they do that analysis, what do they look at when they look at a building, they look at the building on the basis of here is the potential generation. Let's match that with the. 

00:12:10 John Mushriqui 

On site consumption. 

00:12:12 John Mushriqui 

We have a fundamentally different start point. We're like, how much can you maximize this rooftop 4? And then from that maximum generation, how are you able to distribute it to achieve the unit economics and what we called earlier, the blended rate and then it becomes a distribution model from there. 

00:12:31 Jeff McAulay 

You talked about working with owners with multiple buildings, so maybe a reach or somebody that has a large commercial portfolio. 

00:12:38 Jeff McAulay 

How different is the performer for a new construction than an existing building? Like how how much more attractive might it be to work on the front end is, you know, if we're building a new distribution or warehouse or manufacturing facility, are the economics significantly better on the front end than going and retrofitting this? 

00:12:56 John Mushriqui 

100% cost. You know, I'll give you simple things, scaffolding costs. They're already there. They're already there. You eliminate a lot of that cost from your cost per kilowatt peak or MW peak. So that fundamentally achieves the the unit economics, but the you know, we have a lot of built environment. We have a lot of distribution warehouses that. 

00:13:16 John Mushriqui 

Guess what? 

00:13:17 John Mushriqui 

They have single digit adoption rates on it globally, not just in the UK. 

00:13:23 Jeff McAulay 

And then what kind of length of term does a tenant need to be in the building for the economics generally work, obviously it's a function of how. 

00:13:30 Jeff McAulay 

Much power, they. 

00:13:31 Jeff McAulay 

Use, but you know rule of thumb or you know if your sales teams out there talking to folks. Hey, I've got 10 years last left on this, this renewal. Am I good? 

00:13:40 John Mushriqui 

Yeah, I mean, do you want me to answer that on the basis of what the market, how the market perceives it looks at it or how we look at it because we we fundamentally believe that is a key problem, tenant landlord engagement that you know stopped adoption. So that the market takes a. 

00:13:54 John Mushriqui 

Look. 

00:13:54 John Mushriqui 

At it you need. You need a a PA with the occupation tend to be 25, So what ends up happening is that landlord. 

00:14:01 John Mushriqui 

Price to say, Listen, we're willing to put that solar panel, but hold on, can we increase the lease of your length? 

00:14:07 John Mushriqui 

Or the value of that lease in order for it to make sense. 

00:14:10 

Well, we say. 

00:14:11 John Mushriqui 

We don't need to do that. You're making your asset, you're improving the valuation of your asset. You're improving the unit economics on that asset from the uplift of that revenue not coming from that sale of energy, but making attractive to any other tenant. And in turn, what we do is in range, we guarantee the offtake for 10 years for the full generation. 

00:14:31 John Mushriqui 

Even if the bill, if the tenant leaves the building and the tenant and the tenancy becomes void because of our ability to take that access and supply and sell it to nearby customers. But the point that you asked the fundamental problem. 

00:14:45 Jeff McAulay 

What what I think I heard you say then is basically the landlord pays for the infrastructure and you manage this for some period of time. Is that the model that that's happening to the finance and all that is from the landlord? 

00:14:58 John Mushriqui 

We have two models. 

00:14:59 John Mushriqui 

At the end of the day, we we believe financing is a major hurdle to unlock this asset class and there's some landlords that want to invest their own CapEx and there's some landlords that want to use what we call our embedded finance model. 

00:15:14 John Mushriqui 

So we've we've unlocked over 100 million of our credit facility to be able to roll out on these facilities but provide flexible financing models. 

00:15:24 John Mushriqui 

Both from landlord and putting up their own CapEx and then we become the solar operator for the length of the asset, 25 years or whatnot. And the same model goes. 

00:15:36 John Mushriqui 

If we are financing the asset. 

00:15:38 Jeff McAulay 

So the dumb ask question is which I'm really good at. These questions is one of the sales things you're telling Mr. owner, your your property is going to be more valuable in the future because you have this resources part of your Performa and you said we're in single digits acceptance today at some. 

00:15:54 Chris Sass 

Point. 

00:15:55 Jeff McAulay 

This is table stakes anyway, so it's it's not a differentiator anymore, right? So if 10 years down the road, I'd expect a lot of rooftops to have solar. 

00:16:03 Jeff McAulay 

Does that make sense? 

00:16:06 Jeff McAulay 

So is that still a differentiator in the future? 

00:16:07 John Mushriqui 

Yeah, I mean very valid question. 

00:16:10 John Mushriqui 

Yeah, I believe the nature of the asset, right, it's an intermittent resource. It's complex. It's not real estate. 

00:16:20 John Mushriqui 

It's not as simple as a lease. 

00:16:24 John Mushriqui 

And for a lot of reads and a lot of landlords. 

00:16:28 John Mushriqui 

That is a risky proposition that they don't want to entail in. 

00:16:34 John Mushriqui 

So simplicity to us. Yeah, simplicity is what we believe. One of our values, right? So how can we how can we make this a very complex proposition quite simple and straightforward to land ordinary just as simple as leasing your your, your warehouse. 

00:16:55 Chris Sass 

John, you've clearly done a lot of work on this. Can you tell us some examples, either customers you've announced or numbers of deployments you mentioned dollars of potential funding. Where is this actually being put to use? 

00:17:13 John Mushriqui 

Yeah, I mean, I, I'd, I'd nicely like to or probably like to say that this is not just a theory. So we've signed an agreement that's in the public domain with one of the. 

00:17:24 John Mushriqui 

Largest UK retailers, a organization by the name of the range. There's no relationship in between us and them other than a commercial relationship. 

00:17:38 John Mushriqui 

We've started out with rolling on two of their buildings. 

00:17:41 John Mushriqui 

Using again our technology platform simplified approach they. 

00:17:45 John Mushriqui 

And they went down and turned around and gave us an additional 30 buildings with 40 MW capacity, which we're currently rolling on. That's one example from a generation we obviously generate on the buildings we sell them behind the meter, but a lot of that surplus goes to Iron Mountain data Center, which again we made an announcement, our partnership with them. 

00:18:06 John Mushriqui 

In the public domain. So if you take a look at these two examples. 

00:18:08 John Mushriqui 

These are prime examples of large enterprise customers that you are it's a win win situation for the range where they're reducing their energy cost. Their landlord is making an uplift in in revenue for for our mountain as well. They're offsetting and hedging their energy risk and more importantly what's important for them is the impact on the local community that they're having by their ability to uptake. 

00:18:31 John Mushriqui 

Surplus. 

00:18:32 John Mushriqui 

Because in a lot of worlds, people can say that if you don't have an off, take it off, take that surplus. These on site generation would have seen. 

00:18:42 John Mushriqui 

The light of the world. 

00:18:45 Jeff McAulay 

Does storage play into your your situation? So maybe I have off takers at certain times, but the market may not need that on a sunny day. There may be a lot of rooftops producing a lot of energy, and as time goes on there, there may be less demand for the offtake. So have you built storage in any of these yet or is that a near term desire or not part of the plan? 

00:19:06 John Mushriqui 

Well, that is that is definitely part of a plan that's going on. One of our sites right now, large distribution facility, I'd like to say it's a 1.1 million square foot distribution facility where you can install 11 megawatts on it and a battery is a must to be there. 

00:19:25 John Mushriqui 

Not only for the unit economics, but to be able to support behind the meter more to be able to export more. 

00:19:32 John Mushriqui 

But it's not just about that, it's full electrification of that of that C and I space. So right there is where we're going to put an EV charging hub and an EV charging hub where off the solar panels on the battery, you'll be able to supply that because there's a lot of electrification happening nearby with a lot of warehouses. 

00:19:52 Chris Sass 

Great. John, you mentioned their first deployments in the UK and there's a lot of reasons why that, that makes sense. Are there other countries you're targeting? Are you thinking about the US market and are there key thresholds that are important in order for you to? 

00:20:06 Chris Sass 

Enter these markets. 

00:20:10 John Mushriqui 

Yeah, I mean, we love to follow our clients. We structurally set up our business to work with clients that are either pan European or global clients. So we'd like to follow both on the demand and supply side. And if you take a look at, that's clustered, we, you know. 

00:20:28 John Mushriqui 

And two or two. 

00:20:29 John Mushriqui 

Classes where you have large warehouses and large data centers, and in Europe these are countries like Netherlands. 

00:20:37 John Mushriqui 

Pain is A is a growing market. Germany is a is a market there as well. Netherlands is by far one of our more eminent expansion plans just because demand has been pulling out from our key customers. But to us it's it's about matching supply and demand. 

00:20:57 John Mushriqui 

And creating a flexible energy asset into what we call a new energy asset class. 

00:21:04 Chris Sass 

Wonderful. 

00:21:06 Chris Sass 

Well, we've talked a lot about the business and the industry, John, tell us about your personal journey, your founding journey to identify this opportunity to build the company and get some of the first deployments. 

00:21:19 John Mushriqui 

Yes, I've been building businesses. You know, when I graduated from from Temple University out in the States and and aerospace and defense and you know, consumer marketplace. 

00:21:30 John Mushriqui 

Reason my last gig was I got brought on to build a very special function in BP, which was a private equity play that sat alongside the CEO, BP at the time and it was building what will be the future digital renewable businesses in BP. And I came across multiple energy opportunities, but that's when I. 

00:21:51 John Mushriqui 

You know, love fell in love with the potential that energy has on our community in general, but in specific in enterprise power. 

00:22:02 John Mushriqui 

And what I've realized shortly is no matter how long you've been working in. 

00:22:05 John Mushriqui 

This industry, it's. 

00:22:07 John Mushriqui 

Overly complex. You speak to people that have been in this industry for 1520 years and have been doing this and and I thought I didn't understand what I was doing. I still probably understand what I was doing, but they were all, you know, trying to get and solve a massive. 

00:22:22 John Mushriqui 

Problem and that attracted me and I said hold. 

00:22:24 John Mushriqui 

On this is. 

00:22:26 John Mushriqui 

There's a lot of friction points for energy buyers. 

00:22:29 John Mushriqui 

They're all struggling to access. 

00:22:32 John Mushriqui 

Affordable, stable and on top of that, renewable energy. 

00:22:37 John Mushriqui 

Yeah, I see a massive amount of untapped potential when it comes to these commercial rooftops. And I'm not just talking for self consumption. What really gets me out of bed is, is what you can do. 

00:22:48 John Mushriqui 

With that surplus? 

00:22:50 John Mushriqui 

And the impact that has on our occupational tenant for that self consumption, but the impact on the overall unit economics. 

00:23:01 Chris Sass 

It's compelling, John. And for those who are listening, who are maybe at the beginnings of their career or maybe looking at a career transition coming from the the tech industry, what advice do you have for those listeners who might be looking for ways to put their skills to use? 

00:23:22 John Mushriqui 

First of all, find what you're passionate about. There's there's a lot of problems you know, to solve and find. Find what you're passionate about. 

00:23:29 John Mushriqui 

And what you're good about it and start in whatever way, whether that's, you know. 

00:23:33 John Mushriqui 

From. 

00:23:34 John Mushriqui 

Right at the bottom or launching a company or joining a a mission that's that would be my $0.02. 

00:23:42 John Mushriqui 

Of. 

00:23:42 John Mushriqui 

Advice anyone that's interested in you know a very complex problem we are looking for, you know. 

00:23:49 John Mushriqui 

What we call 10 exes or people that raise the bar for us. 

00:23:55 Jeff McAulay 

Is there a transition moment or something that's going to take place that will drive your business? What is there a gate right now keeping that single digit percentage of acceptance rate? 

00:24:05 Jeff McAulay 

Whether it be you know, financing or standard terms or contract that everyone just uses, what what puts gas in the fire, so to speak or accelerates the deployment of this kind of solar. 

00:24:18 John Mushriqui 

You know, I I know a lot of people talk about regulation changing and, you know, people talking about buildings here and the government pushing on their I'm a big believer of the complete opposite. I'm a big believer that the the the way this really takes off is we make a highly compelling. 

00:24:38 John Mushriqui 

Opposition that it's hard to say no and highly component financial proposition that is absolutely hard for. 

00:24:46 John Mushriqui 

Any. 

00:24:47 John Mushriqui 

Business to say no to. 

00:24:49 Jeff McAulay 

And how far is that gap today, where it's a no brainer, so to speak, where you, your, your CFO looks at and goes, geez, it's not just hedging or shaving a few points once in a while you know 50% of our energy we use 50% is going to waste. Let's let's sell it and the numbers this thing just makes so much sense. 

00:25:07 

I would say. 

00:25:07 John Mushriqui 

With. 

00:25:08 John Mushriqui 

I mean my pessimistic self or the the self that would challenge our team. I would say we're probably 5040% away from that. 

00:25:17 John Mushriqui 

Skyrocket growth, if that's what you're talking about. 

00:25:21 Jeff McAulay 

So what is it that's compelling today? Is it? Is it the smaller numbers? What what gets that CFO to sit with one of your team members and say, hey, let's move? 

00:25:29 Jeff McAulay 

Ahead with this project. 

00:25:31 Jeff McAulay 

The what percentage of improvement are we looking? 

00:25:32 John Mushriqui 

It's. It's the. Yeah, it's it's the improved. It's the improved unit economics. I mean we we say to our clients at minimum you will improve your your revenue if your landlord by 20. 

00:25:42 John Mushriqui 

Percent. 

00:25:43 John Mushriqui 

And a minimum you reduce your energy cost by 25% if you're an. 

00:25:46 John Mushriqui 

Energy. 

00:25:47 John Mushriqui 

Buyer so that is that is the the first step that gets someone to sell. 

00:25:52 John Mushriqui 

On the table with us. 

00:25:53 Jeff McAulay 

And what about the utility who you're sleeving the power through? What is? 

00:25:59 Jeff McAulay 

The economic attraction to them is, is it not building a new substation, or are there economic upsides to to their bottom line as well, that they're they're focused on? 

00:26:08 John Mushriqui 

Today. Yeah. I mean, there are several, I mean. 

00:26:11 John Mushriqui 

The the 1st. 

00:26:12 John Mushriqui 

If, if I'm very honest with you. 

00:26:16 John Mushriqui 

The cost of customer acquisition and not losing their large energy buyers that want to do that, that is fundamentally the current driver. There's obviously what you call sleeving fees and shaping fees and and and so on. But these are not hefty. These are not what we'll get them out of bed. But what we found out when we get a customer. 

00:26:36 John Mushriqui 

To say to their utility, listen, we want to sleep energy through in range. They love the model because they don't generate 100% their energy and they say hold on can. 

00:26:44 John Mushriqui 

We offer you to our other clients. 

00:26:47 John Mushriqui 

So so I think you know customers are are more and more becoming in this industry in the drivers seat which we love to see we we we believe this you know one of our key value props is being customer centric and and fulfilling that to the customer which is I would like to say in the previous previous world. 

00:27:06 John Mushriqui 

Calm. It's not that common in in, in, in the energy world. 

00:27:11 John Mushriqui 

But I think the more utility see value propositions for their customers. We don't want to compete with them. 

00:27:20 John Mushriqui 

Our business not to compete with them, our businesses to be able to provide more energy, clean energy to these customers in a very simple manner. 

00:27:30 Jeff McAulay 

And then the other thing that comes to mind, I think of companies like Prologis or these large landholders being someone that would work with you. And I've met plenty of people in their energy teams now. 

00:27:40 Jeff McAulay 

In house, is there a point where they go hey, this is so significant to our future business, perhaps we need to do this in House because we've got a huge global footprint of real estate. 

00:27:51 Jeff McAulay 

And you know, maybe it's in our interest to have a team in house to do this. Is that something that's within reach of some of these or is it too complex like you and Jeff were saying with the software and the management, the find, there's a lot of moving parts to do this. It's not as easy as it seems at the surface, but is that a risk that this goes in house to the larger reads that maybe have enough economics to have a support, a team? 

00:28:12 John Mushriqui 

Very good question. I mean we work with all types of reeds or landlords that have an in-house energy team. 

00:28:23 John Mushriqui 

And that don't even have a procurement team, right? So we work across the end of the of the spectrum and in all these cases, we look to be an extension to these, whether they have an energy team, we look to be an extension, we we call you know, we give you superpowers, whether it's through our platforms or technologies, through enablement to enable that energy team to deliver on their targets and their goals. 

00:28:44 John Mushriqui 

Or if you don't have one, we become the energy team. So in in in either way, we find we find our a compelling value proposition to be very blunt with you when a A re has a. 

00:28:56 John Mushriqui 

Study team we are super delighted because they understand this asset class, they understand the risks, they understand the potential and guess what? They fundamental, see the value proposition that we're driving to. 

00:29:10 Jeff McAulay 

So my last question, because this has been a great conversation, is when do I see you in earnest in the North American market? 

00:29:22 John Mushriqui 

Find us a find us a a customer that will get us there and we'll be there tomorrow. But I think, look, I think we love the US market. We see great potential in the US market. To us it's about the right entry in the right market. We believe that's obviously going to start in the deregulated market. 

00:29:22 

Next. 

00:29:40 John Mushriqui 

UM, where our customers want us to be there. So we're hoping that is in the near future. We're speaking to a lot of customers. We have a lot of US customers with European bases that we're already speaking to. 

00:29:56 John Mushriqui 

And has to be the. 

00:29:56 John Mushriqui 

Right. 

00:29:57 John Mushriqui 

The the right market for us to start where we're actually solving a pain point for our customers. 

00:30:05 Chris Sass 

Wonderful. Well, John, you've really given us a great tour here through a what should be obvious opportunity and through relentless authorship and sales and creative technology, you're figuring out how to. 

00:30:20 Chris Sass 

How to extract that value and then what's really important? I think there's a lot of hand wringing in the US currently about NEM and Community solar, and you're not waiting for those regulations or relying on them and showing away in multiple countries where we actually can make maximizing solar on rooftops really pencil. So thank you for that vision and the work that you're doing. It was great to have this conversation today. 

00:30:43 Chris Sass 

Yeah. 

00:30:44 John Mushriqui 

Thank you for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure. 

00:30:48 Jeff McAulay 

For our audience, we hope you enjoyed this content as much as we did making it. It's been another interesting episode. You can see all the different approaches to solving the energy problem, and there's a lot of space in the industry for folks to solve it in very different places and different niches that need to be solved. And this is a very important one. If you like this. 

00:31:04 Jeff McAulay 

Content. Don't forget to subscribe. Follow us. Join our YouTube channel and we'll see you again next time on the insiders guide to Energy podcast. Bye for now.