194 - How Nucor Corporation Leads the Clean Energy Transition in the Steel Industry

In this episode of theInsider's Guide to Energy Podcast, host Chris Sass interviews Tabitha Stine from Nucor Corporation, the largest steel producer in the U.S. and a leader in steel recycling. Tabitha discusses Nucor's innovative approach to reducing carbon emissions by using electric arc furnaces and their position as one of the largest utility customers in the states where they operate. She emphasizes the importance of transitioning to cleaner energy sources like nuclear and fusion power to support Nucor’s massive energy needs while maintaining a sustainable steel production process. 

Tabitha highlights Nucor's commitment to net-zero emissions by 2050 and the company's $50 million investment in new nuclear and fusion technologies. She explains how Nucor is partnering with tech giants like Google and Microsoft to accelerate the adoption of clean energy and contribute to the decarbonization of the steel industry. Additionally, Tabitha dives into the role of recycling in Nucor’s circular economy, showcasing how the company is already using one-third of the carbon intensity of traditional steelmaking methods. 

The conversation also touches on the growing demand for steel driven by infrastructure projects, the tech industry, and electric vehicles. Tabitha explores how Nucor is not only reducing its environmental footprint but also playing a key role in powering America’s clean energy future. With partnerships and technological innovations, Nucor is poised to remain a leader in sustainable steel production while addressing the challenges of energy consumption in the industrial sector.

We were pleased to host: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tabitha-stine-6691106/

Visit our website: https://insidersguidetoenergy.com/

Chapters

• 0:35 Overview of Nucor Corporation and the Steel Industry
• 5:13 Nucor's $50 Million Investment in Fusion and Fission
• 7:40 Partnerships with Tech Companies for Clean Energy
• 14:07 Collaborating with Utilities for Energy Efficiency
• 19:58 Small Modular Reactors (SMRs) in Steel Production
• 24:36 Steel’s Role in Climate Resilience and Infrastructure
• 27:50 The Role of AI in Optimizing Energy Usage
• 29:32 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Transcript 

00:00:01 Tabitha Stine 

To reach net 0 by 2050, industries must innovate and customers must be willing to embrace clean energy technologies in the next decade alone, we will need 300% more power than we have today. We are excited to be. 

00:00:17 Tabitha Stine 

Part of this transition. 

00:00:22 Chris Sass 

Your trusted source for information on the energy transition. This is an insider's guide to energy podcast. 

00:00:34 Chris Sass 

Hello and welcome to another edition of the Insiders Guide to Energy Podcast. I'm your host Chris Sass, and with me today is Tabitha Stein. Tabitha, welcome to the podcast. 

00:00:43 Tabitha Stine 

Hi Chris, really excited to be here today. 

00:00:45 Chris Sass 

I'm excited to have you as a guest and the topic is one that interests me. We're going to talk about making steel and it's probably going to baffle our guests, but why am I talking to a steel company about greener energy? I mean, that's going to be crazy for most people. 

00:00:59 Tabitha Stine 

Yeah. You know, Nucor Corporation, who we are, we are America's largest steel producer. We're also the largest recycler in the Western Hemisphere. What that really means is we need energy to make steel. How much energy do we need? Well, in many cases, we are the largest utility customer in the states. 

00:01:19 Tabitha Stine 

We do business and that really comes to the scale of the magnitude of what it takes to power 26 steel mills in over 300 locations of steel making and steel fabrication facilities around North America. 

00:01:32 

Yeah. 

00:01:33 Chris Sass 

Now that is a lot of steel. I think at one time I've heard you hold like 40% of our market share in North America for steel or some large percentage of the market share. Are all steel mills made equal and are they all equally impactful in the environment? 

00:01:48 Tabitha Stine 

Yeah, that's a great question. You know, we've been around for 60 years, 60 years making steel, fabricating products that go into construction and energy and automotive. And the thing to realize is we've been making steel, what I would call the sustainable way the entire. 

00:02:04 Tabitha Stine 

Time we melt scrap, which is the cars, the appliances, all the products we use as a consumer every day we melt that down and we make new steel. And so there's a very circular economy for us and making steel. 

00:02:18 Tabitha Stine 

I grew up in the Midwest and as you look a lot across the skyline of Chicago and look towards, you know, the Indiana beaches of Lake, MI, what you see is a skyline of traditional. 

00:02:31 Tabitha Stine 

Old steel old steel is produced the process of actually mining and melting iron ore and lime and and and. And that process is very carbon intensive and if we compare the way we make steel to the way of the traditional old school steel making that's been around for over 100 years. 

00:02:51 Tabitha Stine 

We use about 1/3 of the carbon intensity of that traditional way of melting and pouring steel. 

00:02:58 Chris Sass 

To using a third of the carbon intensity, maybe we need a little bit more education in our steel making process. 

00:03:04 Chris Sass 

How can you do it so much less? I I get that. Maybe you're you're recycling. So you're you're not having to go through the mining part and shipping the raw materials? 

00:03:12 Chris Sass 

But there's got to be more to it. 

00:03:14 Tabitha Stine 

You know, as we look at the steel and and give you some perspective, the reason the steel industry matters so much is we're using a third of the steel or of the energy and the carbon of our competitors, both you know internationally and domestic. But on a global scale, 70% of all steel is made through that dirtier process that we call extractive. 

00:03:38 Tabitha Stine 

It's the mining process of using those materials and. 

00:03:41 Tabitha Stine 

Actually, you know, putting them in the furnace compared to just the circularity of the carbon that we have in, in, in the steel that we're recovering every single day. And so it's important to realize that by completely converting the industry to finding ways to use electric arc furnaces. 

00:04:01 Tabitha Stine 

We could have a transformation, but it's not going to happen overnight. It's it's a big process overall. 

00:04:07 Chris Sass 

You you talked about the electric arc furnace and being a utility's largest customer. 

00:04:10 

MHM. 

00:04:14 Chris Sass 

That sounds like you're using a lot of electricity. What are you doing to manage that? Because you still need the electricity. So how are you getting greener using electricity? 

00:04:24 Tabitha Stine 

So it's really important that we work with our utility customers to find ways to truly pivot from carbon intensive electricity sources to clean energy sources. But the thing to appreciate is a lot of us in our homes, we're using maybe solar panels on our roof or we see wind towers. 

00:04:44 Tabitha Stine 

When we're driving, but we can't power a steel mill based off that as our base load. 

00:04:50 Tabitha Stine 

That's the challenge. And So what we're really looking at is securing renewable energy such as that, but we really have to pivot to a more standalone clean energy source and for that, we're really leaning heavily into nuclear and that could be new nuclear and fission or fusion or even traditional nuclear. 

00:05:12 Chris Sass 

And I know in our pre call we talked a bit and you talked about making an investment and you just said you know you got vision. 

00:05:18 Chris Sass 

And. 

00:05:18 Chris Sass 

Fusion fusion, they've always said it's 30 years away. So you guys are investing in fusion. 

00:05:24 Tabitha Stine 

We are we've invested $50 million total 15,000,000 in vision technology and 35 million in fusion. 

00:05:33 Tabitha Stine 

And we are very excited and committed that we feel that we have a partner that's going to be able to help us power one of those steel mills by the end of this decade. And we feel we truly feel that's going to be transformational, not just for us but other industrial partners, customers of ours and the communities that we serve. 

00:05:51 Chris Sass 

All right, so you're you're making a bet on the future. I'm excited to hear about that. I actually was, you know, throwing the 30 year line out there. I think for most of the fusion folks have talked to more recently, they think in 10 years that they'll be something to do, probably not commercialized, but they'll be where they need to be. 

00:05:53 Tabitha Stine 

We are. 

00:06:07 Chris Sass 

I guess do you also? 

00:06:09 Chris Sass 

Move your plants or are you located near greener energy? You mentioned nuclear. We're not really building a lot of large nuclear plants these days for base load. So is that a where your plants are going or your facilities are? 

00:06:21 Chris Sass 

What? 

00:06:22 Tabitha Stine 

Yeah. As we look at, energy is a big driver where we build new facilities. It's also the states we do business, the utility partners that we've had for decades. How do we secure the energy and and and it's it's important to realize that while we need a lot of energy, so do all the new onshoring. 

00:06:41 Tabitha Stine 

Manufacturing plants and data centers and AI technology that moves forward and we have to realize that the steel that we sell today. 

00:06:50 Tabitha Stine 

That's going into, say, a new AI data center, that data center customer needs steel for their servers, for their buildings. They also need the equivalent power that we need at our largest steel mills here in the US, which is unfathomable that much power so. 

00:07:07 Chris Sass 

For a single data center or for a region. 

00:07:10 Tabitha Stine 

Know for a single data center a. 

00:07:11 Tabitha Stine 

Single data center. 

00:07:11 Chris Sass 

So you're you're saying a single data center is going to use as much power as a steel mill, and with the AI revolution coming? 

00:07:17 Tabitha Stine 

Absolutely. And so as you think about, we go into a state we want to build a steel mill. There's also tech companies that are showing up asking for that same power. And that's the challenge. These states are are are needing to double capacity while also decarbonizing and they've put together target goals over the next decade. So we have to be very careful. Where are the states that we want to do business. 

00:07:39 Tabitha Stine 

Who are our partners that we're going to be able to possibly share power with? 

00:07:43 Tabitha Stine 

And so This is why we've decided we can't sit back and be idle. We have to have a seat at the table and we also have to accelerate the adoption of sometimes first of a kind technology such as fusion technology and say we're willing to be an off taker. We're willing to bring customers to the table who are also willing to be off takers. 

00:08:03 Tabitha Stine 

And does that accelerate maybe regulation acceptance in local markets? And so, remember, we're not going to just move our steel mills to where energy is, but we're willing to buy Vpas in the meantime and really kind of consider. 

00:08:19 Tabitha Stine 

On site, small modular reactors as maybe a technology that we bring power to our locations and to our communities. 

00:08:27 Chris Sass 

You've mentioned partnerships in that statement in the beginning kind of opening you kind of went over it pretty quickly. What kind of partners are you talking about to help achieve these goals? 

00:08:37 Tabitha Stine 

Yeah, I mentioned the tech companies and it seems like an odd relationship for us and a tech company to get together. But here's where the magic happens. We've been a steel producer for over 60 years. We are the largest utility customer in many jurisdictions where we operate. 

00:08:56 Tabitha Stine 

And we also realize that the people building across the street from us who are these tech companies, they're new to the market. They need access to clean power, maybe some enhanced relationships with utilities. And we looked at each other and said, why don't we work together as industrial partners and? 

00:09:17 Tabitha Stine 

You know what's in it for the States and communities is economic development. We're bringing jobs to local areas we're bringing. 

00:09:23 Tabitha Stine 

Acceleration of clean energy to communities, and so we looked across the street and said, guess what? We're selling you steel. Why don't we pair up together and both signal to the market that says we're willing to be off takers of this energy and can that help accelerate the scaled adoption of of all these things that are coming to light? 

00:09:44 Chris Sass 

All right, so you've partnered up, you're doing the off take, I, I guess as this is evolving and and the demand is going on, but you're also a public company, are you not you not have shareholders? Your mission isn't to save the planet. Your mission is to make a return on investment? 

00:09:58 Tabitha Stine 

Now. 

00:10:00 Tabitha Stine 

Correct. Yeah. There's no question that shareholder value is is very important to everything. 

00:10:05 Tabitha Stine 

So. 

00:10:05 Tabitha Stine 

We do. And so we're not here to make steel more expensive. We're not here to lose on any of our return on invested capital. And so how we do this with other many public companies such as we've announced an advanced market commitment with Google and Microsoft earlier this year to accelerate the adoption of first of the kind. 

00:10:27 Tabitha Stine 

Technology, energy and so we know that we can't just pick an example, buy green hydrogen off the market today to power a furnace of ours. 

00:10:37 Tabitha Stine 

It doesn't make economical sense, but are there things that we can do with other industrial partners to help accelerate the adoption regulation and bringing? 

00:10:48 Tabitha Stine 

That, that, that, that. 

00:10:49 Tabitha Stine 

Cost down. Absolutely. And so those are the things that there's near term wins, but there's also that long term vision of how do we do this. 

00:10:58 Tabitha Stine 

With other partners to bring down that cost quick because we will not make steel at a point where it's an economical. 

00:11:07 Chris Sass 

Is is United States steel curve really growing? I mean, you've heard in the past that we're not the manufacturing country we used to be. We've got EV's and automobiles kind of being assembled and put together everywhere. I mean, the IRA does drive a lot of things back onshore. What's the prospect for growth and demand for steel? 

00:11:25 Tabitha Stine 

Well, you know, it's been a very exciting last few years coming out of COVID the investment that's. 

00:11:30 Tabitha Stine 

Been put in. 

00:11:31 Tabitha Stine 

To the IJA, which really comes down to how we're rebuilding our roads and bridges. We also have the IRA, which has really been funneling a lot to new solar construction. That's happened in addition to the Chips Act. So the onshoring of manufacturing of chips in this country. 

00:11:52 Tabitha Stine 

We really improved the supply chain challenges that we had coming out of COVID and there's been a renaissance for sure in manufacturing and a lot of that is very steel and. 

00:12:03 Tabitha Stine 

What's also great is we have a very, very strong industry in the US that also relies on fighting the dumping of steel that comes into this country, that steel could come in raw form or even through EV's. And we've seen in the last few weeks really good exciting traction on tariffs. 

00:12:22 Tabitha Stine 

Being brought back to fight the dumping of steel in this country and also recent. 

00:12:29 Tabitha Stine 

Tariffs on Chinese electric vehicles coming into this country. And so we we have nothing but confidence that as the future demand for growth happens for both manufacturing residential construction that the steel industry is going to continue to grow and we're a growth company, we're going to keep investing and growing our company as well. 

00:12:50 Chris Sass 

Now the one thing that's nagging at me during this conversation is we started out and you were very proud of your recycling and how that was more efficient and reduced carbon. But then we went in to talk about data centers. You just talked about infrastructure, bridges and highways and things like that. Those things aren't producing a lot of recycled steel. They're going to sit there a really long time. So is there enough raw material in the recycling to drive the business? Are you still bringing in raw material? 

00:13:14 Tabitha Stine 

Now they're. I mean, we are an economy of consumers of over consumers, I would say. And just because that bridge is maybe going to last 100 years, it doesn't mean that all of us aren't going through a new dishwasher or a new car on a pretty good clip. And so the amount of scrap that we have that's continuing to come into the market, remember we. 

00:13:34 Tabitha Stine 

We export a lot of scrap in this country too, so we have plenty of scrap to fuel. Our furnaces, continue to make new steel and guess what, that bridge that will last 100 years when it's recycled still has the same qualities and benefit of the steel that will be made today. 

00:13:50 Tabitha Stine 

In what's great is the steel dismay today is going to need less steel than the bridge that was built 100 years ago because of the efficiencies brought, you know, that's the technological advances. And so that's not even a concern. That's even kind of went across our radar. 

00:14:06 Chris Sass 

This is an energy podcast where you mentioned you have partnerships with the utilities, your largest customers. What kind of work does a company like yours do in partnership with the utilities? So obviously you talked about investments or future technology, but day-to-day, operationally, how are you working hand in hand with the utilities? 

00:14:22 Tabitha Stine 

You know, our locations are all across the country, which means state by state. We have partnerships with those with those local utilities and let's just pick an example. If there is a a storm in Texas or there is a a high weather event where guess what it's going to be 110. 

00:14:43 Tabitha Stine 

Breeze and the grid is going to. 

00:14:45 Tabitha Stine 

Be. 

00:14:45 Tabitha Stine 

Taxed. We are looked at as an industry that can does not need redundant consistent power. We can turn off our mills at times when the grid is being taxed, and so we're talking every day with our utilities in terms of do we need to down cycle at a certain time. 

00:15:03 Tabitha Stine 

This week, to be able to relief the give, provide relief to the grid and possibly run in a non at an off peak time. So that happens all the time and we're also consciously always working with them. 

00:15:18 Tabitha Stine 

You know, in relation to our rates and how reliable the power is coming to us, what is the rate structure that we have state by state and if you look at a map of all the utility companies, it's not like it's a a master contract across the whole US and 300 locations. There are utility pockets. 

00:15:37 Tabitha Stine 

Co-ops all over, and it requires very local connections between our general managers and controllers at each location with those utility partners. 

00:15:48 Chris Sass 

Using so much energy is energy. One of your largest costs to producing steel is that one of the most expensive elements. 

00:15:55 Tabitha Stine 

Yeah, I wish I could show you in a podcast. What it what it feels like to be at a steel mill because as they strike the arc. 

00:16:03 Tabitha Stine 

Of the furnace. 

00:16:04 Tabitha Stine 

You feel it in your chest and you realize at that point when that electrode is melting that scrap, how much energy is actually consumed and that and the scrap are the two largest things that it takes to make steel. And so This is why it matters. We're the largest recycler in the Western Hemisphere. Well, why? 

00:16:22 Tabitha Stine 

Because we want to help control and bring in scrap direct to our business and and minimize any challenges with that supply chain and so on the energy side, it requires us, you know the other big piece of our pie of having great partnerships with utilities so that we can continue to melt and steel 24/7 365. 

00:16:44 Tabitha Stine 

And have that partnership of a reliable grid. 

00:16:48 Tabitha Stine 

That can serve us. 

00:16:50 Chris Sass 

Is there areas of the country where there's growth in the steel space where where you're looking to grow or where the utilities are looking to offload base load and use you maybe to justify that? Is that one of the things in the conversations of where you you choose to be or is it just because traditionally there's been steel mills here and that's why we have steel mills, there's? 

00:17:08 Chris Sass 

Zoned in here. 

00:17:09 Tabitha Stine 

Well, there's a lot of different factors on why you locate a steel mill where it should be, from environmental practices to where's the scrap. 

00:17:18 Tabitha Stine 

It's pretty economical to take scrap from where it's actually coming and there is a lot of scrap in the Midwest and so you'll see the Midwest, the upper Midwest, even Pittsburgh area. It's because the river system, it's easy to move scrap in those areas. And if you compare. 

00:17:38 Tabitha Stine 

The logistic transport of scrap in the Midwest compared to say. 

00:17:42 Tabitha Stine 

On the Pacific Northwest, it's very different. It's harder to move material and so the logistics come into play quite a bit, but also the partnerships of those utilities. So I I can't say that the energy is the number one. It it really depends. It depends on who's going to be the customer of those products that we're making, because there's so many different types of steel. 

00:18:03 Tabitha Stine 

And different end markets they go into. So we think about you know, all of those factors go. 

00:18:08 

Play. 

00:18:09 Chris Sass 

In our previous conversations, you and I've talked and you've talked about trying to get other steel makers to adopt some of the practices that your company does. So I don't want to turn this into an infomercial for your company, but what are some of the things you'd like? 

00:18:20 Chris Sass 

To see the industry. 

00:18:22 Chris Sass 

Do as a whole to be better stewards of the environment and perhaps better management and get to green energy. 

00:18:29 Tabitha Stine 

Well, one of the big challenges. 

00:18:30 Tabitha Stine 

Out there is not a lot of steel. Producers are transparent with all of their scope, one scope, 2 scope, 3 emissions. And I think it's a big opportunity for us to bring accountability to the market by having all steel makers. 

00:18:46 Tabitha Stine 

Put their numbers out on the table so that we can continue to allow customers to demand thresholds that everybody understands and. 

00:18:57 Tabitha Stine 

The pivot that many of the what I would call extractive BOF steel makers to the electric arc furnace, which is a circular. 

00:19:05 Tabitha Stine 

Process is going to take decades, possibly with billions of dollars of investment of things that we're already doing today. And so the first thing is, is let's all be transparent around the technologies and all the emissions, from everything from inputs to outputs to steel making process, so that we can. 

00:19:25 Tabitha Stine 

All work together towards continuing to green our grid and provide the cleanest steel on the planet. 

00:19:32 Chris Sass 

You you've mentioned smars in in the previous part of our conversation and I've talked to many and a lot of people put a lot of investment in them. There's quite a bit of. 

00:19:42 Chris Sass 

Interest in them. 

00:19:43 Chris Sass 

How far are those from being commercialized in something that you could use at a steel mill today? 

00:19:48 Tabitha Stine 

Yeah, we're still optimistic that within the next decade, we'll get there. We wouldn't have put $15 million into a technology that we didn't feel was just. 

00:20:01 Tabitha Stine 

Just the right thing to do. It's something that we feel there will be a return on the investment. However, we also realize that there are dozens and dozens of companies that are out there trying to find the best way to make it happen, to make it scalable that can be built in a safe, economical manner. And so we're watching them all. 

00:20:21 Tabitha Stine 

And. 

00:20:23 Tabitha Stine 

I think it's an exciting time. It feels a little bit like the Wild West, but in a wonderful way that this is a renaissance for for the nuclear industry and new ways that I think people like us can accelerate the adoption and tremendous. 

00:20:38 Tabitha Stine 

Ways and so that's why we've even said we're big, but we can't do it alone and we need to bring our customers, our tech partners, our automotive company, company partners side by side and say let's do this together. 

00:20:52 Chris Sass 

Is the steel of my dad's generation the same as the steel of today or are there chemical or changes taking place in steel to make it more efficient? So you maybe don't need to use as much energy as well in the process? 

00:21:04 Tabitha Stine 

Yeah, that's a great. That's a great point. 

00:21:08 Tabitha Stine 

Let's compare, you know, my hometown of Chicago. And if you think about what's known as Willis Tower, the old Sears Tower, you know, at the time. 

00:21:15 Tabitha Stine 

It was built was. 

00:21:16 Tabitha Stine 

The tallest building in North America. If that same building were built today, it would probably use around 40% less steel. And that's because of just the innovations and making steel. 

00:21:28 Tabitha Stine 

Today, with higher stress. 

00:21:29 Tabitha Stine 

Points and just the efficiencies in making steel today. It takes about a less than 1/2 a man hour to make a ton of steel. Prior to 1980 it was like 10 man hours to make a ton of steel. So as you think about the labor that's required the energy that's consumed and also just the advances in steel making. 

00:21:50 Tabitha Stine 

You're going to need to make less steel to get the same strength and performance qualities out of it, and I think that's the exciting part is we're continuing to innovate. So we'll recycle our grandfather steel to make the steel today, but we're gonna need a lot less. 

00:22:03 Chris Sass 

But what I just heard you say is because it's a lot less if it's 40% less you're using. 

00:22:09 Chris Sass 

Theoretically, much less energy to to create that. 

00:22:12 Tabitha Stine 

Yeah. And we're making steel, but each ton is being made more efficient too. So it's not just 40% less energy, it's also the process that we make. Steel is the efficiencies in our mills are so much further advanced than what they were even 30 years ago. 

00:22:30 Chris Sass 

Going back to more on the energy side and the consumption of energy to to, to to make this deal is. 

00:22:39 Chris Sass 

Is it across the board the same? Then use wise I mean I know you've talked about EV's, we've talked about infrastructure projects. It's still still still used in all the same ways. Or are there more or less ways that steel is being consumed today? 

00:22:53 Tabitha Stine 

You know, one of the things that somebody could ask is will still be replaced. What's the new modern material? 

00:23:02 Chris Sass 

That's kind of what I was trying to get at. 

00:23:03 Tabitha Stine 

Yeah. Is it glass? Is it ceramics? Is it composite? So what are the things that are gonna replace steel? And here's the reality is the best project, whether it's a car, a skyscraper, a data center that's going to be built, is going to be the assembly of all the best materials together. 

00:23:20 Tabitha Stine 

And I'll tell you, in my 25 years, most predominantly in the construction industry, there's been threats of mass timber, there's been threats of high strength concrete. And what I'll tell you is we're always making our materials better. But in general, the the growth of the steel industry is continuing to to, to. 

00:23:40 Tabitha Stine 

Not flounder at all. In fact, it's continuing to where it's been for decades, and that's because nothing can really replace the strength and resiliency and adaptability of steel. And so we're excited to partner. So let's think about an electric vehicle. 

00:23:57 Tabitha Stine 

As we think about the batteries that are in these vehicles, they're very heavy and so possibly in the past you would see aluminum being introduced into cars, some of their goods are going back to to steel just because of the strength to support some of the loads in an EV car. But we're excited to partner with composite. 

00:24:17 Tabitha Stine 

Companies or come partner for an EV car, or we're building a high rise, maybe steel and mass timber together. And so I think it's important to realize is we have no concerns with demand going down. It's really just the demand of all these efficient materials coming together and continuing to improve each other. 

00:24:36 Chris Sass 

All right, we. 

00:24:38 Chris Sass 

We we believe there's a market in the future. You know I I said that people are probably going to be a bit skeptical that I'm talking to a steel company. So if you're talking to an environmentalist, if someone's really worried about the environment, they're worried about energy and energy transition solely for environment, what's the message to them? 

00:24:55 Tabitha Stine 

You know, we look at all the materials from the carbon intensity to per, you know, imagine the same building built with all the different materials that are out there. I am, you know, I will say. 

00:25:07 Tabitha Stine 

That the best building built is the one not built. That's the most environmentally friendly 1, so I'm a big advocate for rehabilitation. How do we renovate existing structures, particularly in high rise communities such as Chicago and New York, as people started working from home, how do we adapt those buildings for new reuse? Adaptive reuse is so important. 

00:25:27 Tabitha Stine 

And so those are the things we have to do. But what I can ensure every environmentalist out there is we are the cleanest steelmaker on the planet. There is no question that there is that there is, there is not a better way to make steel. 

00:25:42 Tabitha Stine 

Than what we do today. 

00:25:43 Tabitha Stine 

And while others are playing catch up to our technology, we are continuing to March forward and we will get to net 0 by 2050 with our steel making process and that's exciting. We're looking at everything from our raw materials to our logistics to our transportation and that you can be. 

00:26:02 Tabitha Stine 

Assured that the. 

00:26:03 Tabitha Stine 

Steel that's necessary to build the roads, the bridges. 

00:26:07 Tabitha Stine 

And honestly, disaster resistant as climate change happens, how do we survive earthquakes? How do we survive the wind and heavy rainfall events through resiliency of steel construction? We need steel for all of those things and we can produce the most environmentally. 

00:26:27 Tabitha Stine 

Friendly products and solutions on the. 

00:26:29 Tabitha Stine 

Planet. 

00:26:30 Chris Sass 

Alright, so you're very passionate. One other area before we wrap this up that I you you've mentioned a couple of times, emissions and scope of emissions and public companies have responsibilities now for scope one and two potentially in the future scope, 3 emissions. 

00:26:48 Chris Sass 

How are you planning into this? I mean you you said it's an important step, but I assume that it was some of the SEC and some of the other regulations is also helping put this front. 

00:26:56 Chris Sass 

And center on your radar, yes. 

00:26:59 Tabitha Stine 

I think everything it's, it's not just the SEC. Our customers are demanding it. I mean, I think you would see companies pushing back more if you didn't have customers demanding it. And that's the reality is our customers are demanding transparency. And so I would say for the last five to eight years. 

00:27:20 Tabitha Stine 

There's been pocket. 

00:27:20 Tabitha Stine 

Hits and there are definitely end markets, particularly automotive, that are really pushing for all their suppliers. And what we've realized is we're ready to lean completely in and even lean in towards scope 3. And so we're going to look at what does each automaker need, what is their challenges in front of them and how do we provide them with all the offerings that they need. 

00:27:44 Tabitha Stine 

To continue to get closer to 0 as quick as possible across all three. 

00:27:49 Tabitha Stine 

And so the SEC is just one piece of it. But you know, if the SEC wasn't demanding it, we need to sell steel and our customers are demanding it and the commercial opportunity for us to be closer with them and give them true carbon accounting is is probably equal or more important. 

00:28:09 Tabitha Stine 

To our bottom line. 

00:28:11 Chris Sass 

I'm going to ask you one hypothetical ask for your opinion. You mentioned getting to net zero in in the future. What one disruptive technology is going to be the quickest thing to accelerate us to get there? You mentioned a few of them this conversation. What's the one you're betting on personally? 

00:28:28 

Well. 

00:28:29 Tabitha Stine 

One of the things that we get asked a lot about is AI. How will we leverage AI to really not just accelerate the decisions that our business decisions, but how we continue to optimize the energy grid, the way energy moves across this country is and. 

00:28:47 Tabitha Stine 

Equated and as we continue to modernize the grid, the moving of of, of, of energy also the storing of of energy. At optimal times we do have mills right now that we have battery technology where we store energy to then we buy it during you know off peak. 

00:29:07 Tabitha Stine 

Times and use that power between 5:00 and 7:00 to power our steel mill in the. 

00:29:11 Tabitha Stine 

Evening. And so the more we can leverage intelligent AI technology to help further optimize how we use energy store energy and produce our steel, I think that could revolutionize the way we're an energy customer. And again how we help our customers secure that clean energy as well. 

00:29:32 Chris Sass 

Cool. I I think I put you on your toes enough. I I'm not gonna beat you up with more questions. I think it's been a fun conversation. I've I've got a bit more of a feel of the steel industry's perspective, your company's perspective and what you're doing to try to make steel greener and to use green energy. I want to thank you so much for coming on. 

00:29:49 Tabitha Stine 

The podcast today, thanks so much. 

00:29:53 Tabitha Stine 

We are a steel industry that is leading the charge and and super passionate about this direction for us and our customers and. 

00:30:03 Tabitha Stine 

You know, in the next few years it's going to be a continued evolution that we're we're excited to talk about. So thanks for having me. 

00:30:10 Chris Sass 

For audience, we hope you've enjoyed this discussion. As always, we're never afraid to go where the topics take us. We could talk steel, we can talk whatever technology you want, but if you like this content and you want to hear more content like this, don't forget to subscribe and really important. Go on YouTube, go on LinkedIn and add comments and join the conversation. We'll see you again next time on the insiders. 

00:30:29 Chris Sass 

Guide to energy podcast. 

00:30:30 Chris Sass 

For now.