Chris Sass and Martin Hiller (Hosts of the ETRM Mini-Series) are talking to Richard Williamson (Chief Executive Officer) of Gen10.
"Gen10 makes the day-to-day tasks of energy commodity trading faster and simpler with automation and collaboration. Our cloud ecosystem technology empowers clients to make smarter, safer trading decisions, complete the feedback loop across departments, manage carbon & environmental assets, and more."
To get more insights about all the vendors that participated in the ETRM Mini-Series, check out https://insidersguidetoenergy.com/energy-podcast-education/etrm/
If you want to find out more about Gen10, click https://insidersguidetoenergy.com/energy-podcast-education/etrm/gen10/
Chris Sass and Martin Hiller (Hosts of the ETRM Mini-Series) are talking to Richard Williamson (Chief Executive Officer) of Gen10.
"Gen10 makes the day-to-day tasks of energy commodity trading faster and simpler with automation and collaboration. Our cloud ecosystem technology empowers clients to make smarter, safer trading decisions, complete the feedback loop across departments, manage carbon & environmental assets, and more."
To get more insights about all the vendors that participated in the ETRM Mini-Series, check out https://insidersguidetoenergy.com/energy-podcast-education/etrm/
If you want to find out more about Gen10, click https://insidersguidetoenergy.com/energy-podcast-education/etrm/gen10/
| Timestamp | Speaker | Transcript
| 09:20.94 | chrissass | welcome to insider's guide to energy ETRM miniseries and today we have with us Gen10 and Richard Williamson from Gen10 Richard welcome to the program. Yeah, we're happy to have you here today? um.
| 09:32.87 | Richard | Hi Chris Thanks for having me.
| 09:39.90 | chrissass | For our audience and listeners. Maybe it would make sense. We start out by telling us a little bit about who Gen Ten is and who you are.
| 09:45.12 | Richard | Sure. So um, I'm richard williamson the ceo founder of of gen 10 we just passed our twenty first birthday last Thursday um, and we've been spending our professional existence trying to. Digitalize sort of these commodity supply chains across ags metals and energy. Thank you very much a good training like.
| 10:05.26 | chrissass | Well happy birthday. It's it's good to to you. You look look like a good 21 year old so the the er minis seriesies is really designed. Um, it came out of the fact that I've been talking to a number of etm vendors across the spectrum as has Martin. And we see all kinds of activity. We see a lot of companies trying to reinvent themselves. We see a lot of startups. We see a lot of people you know, just really putting a lot of effort into eachrm and and my question to you is you know what's different. You've been doing this for 21 years so what what's happened in the last couple of years. What? what. What's going on and eat your app.
| 10:43.75 | Richard | Um, um, well obviously covid has has has played a big part in in people's decision making and and speed speeding up the decision process to to to look at other etrm um systems that could perhaps. Assist them more in a work from home environment. Um, so I I think it really has been covid as a catalyst to to to get people to look at more modern etrm um systems you know, looking at Cloud. How do we implement remotely. If we're not allowed to travel and things like that. Um, so that's certainly been a catalyst over the last couple of years. Ah functionality wise and it's been about you know, needing something more flexible being able to get more out of the data being able to visualize the data. Um, you know. We'll be covering a few of these topics later on as well. But you know ai machine learning. How do we get the computer to help generate some insights for us. Um, yeah I probably that over the last couple of years.
| 11:50.67 | chrissass | So so it seems like you're attributing a fair amount to covid how about renewables. How does that play into what's going on is that in in your sector and and the commodities you do are they making an impact as well.
| 12:03.15 | Richard | And absolutely I mean as as people need to diversify their portfolios from you know, a contract of having some coal ships regularly coming in to to to use up at the utilities. You know you're needing to find energy generation. Sources from from lots of different places. Ah the kind of impact that has on an etrm um system. Um, it gets it more complicated gets it more physical. It gets it more diverse. You've got a portfolio of of different inventories that are coming in different ways different formats. So yes, that has been. That that trend as well has put a lot of pressure on etrms and perhaps that's why a lot of them are coming back to market today.
| 12:48.22 | Martin | Okay, so understood that renew was also impacting understood your business or your solutions. But maybe in a bit more details. What does that mean exactly for um, your offerings your solutions. How do you incorporate that. Change in the market in terms of renewables.
| 13:09.90 | Richard | Yeah, well I mean we we come from a physical agricultural background I was a cotton trader before gen ten um, and for the first ten years. It was just cotton ah, and what what I would say is that. The the challenges and all of the exceptions to the rule that cotton creates for computers around quality changing weight changing values changing. Um, it's It's it's around the inventory controls around the workflows and things like that. Ah that the problems that we needed to solve during our first half of our lives and seeing how that was then easily translated to other commodities. You know Bolt commodities 60000 tons or whatever. Um. But also how how how metals how how metals need to be managed coming up to renewables where you have inventories of lots of different qualities. Lots of different parameters that affect the final price and who you allocate you know, which which which um inventories you allocate to who. Um, it's sort of we we we? Yeah, we went through all the hard learnings earlier on before we started bringing things to the cloud.
| 14:28.79 | Martin | Okay, and so so what? what I hear out of that is but that your resolution covers quite some commodities not just power and gas. Maybe but I understood more than you mentioned Cotton and also than bulk ah products. So Can you explain a bit and describe those of our audience. What your typical target clients are and what their business usually is and what you according to that focus on.
| 14:59.55 | Richard | Yeah sure I mean we we we do over 100 commodities now all on the same code base all on the same platform. Um, and you know our our sweet spot is and anybody who needs to physically move stuff. Ah, whether it's a commodity or something else to be honest, but it's around the the shipping the logistics um people who have ah a big um ah a big operational ah demand from a computer system. These are the people that that we. But we serve best yeah people who who need to ship things around the world keep track of it make sure the trade finance is in place look at inventories all over the world and be able to price it correctly.
| 15:45.64 | chrissass | So you you talked about say I get that that' people shipping things and I get the the risk element of that there but visualization. So you mentioned broadly in the opening statements that visualization or reporting or whatever needs to change or is 1 of the drivers or change so Describe. What kind of changes are needed. There. What what?? What are you seeing and what would you expect a modern system to do.
| 16:08.57 | Richard | Yeah, um, changes that we're seeing I mean I think mostly to do with the original technology that people would use for the etrms. Not so easy to stick a dashboard in the to to visualize your inventories or your. Long position or whatever it might be your operational performance key Performance metrics. Whatever um I think the you know that's actually the simple bit. The difficult bit is making sure that all of the data. The underlying data is the present. And that you can get access to it so you can make whatever visualizations you want? Um, So the the challenge I think historically is being able to get access to that data so that you can leverage other visualization tools whether it's whether it's our own Dashboard Module. Or whether it's power bi or Click view. Whatever The external thing is the job is making sure a that. The data is clean that it's in the right state in its Workflow. Um, and that you have the apis in place so that you can consume that data in whichever way you want. I mean no no 2 trading companies have the same position report. So.
| 17:23.53 | chrissass | So so you're 21 year old company. So I assume the architecture is more aftergrown with with the times if you're telling me that it's about to get the data. So. Is that part of what you're doing right now. Are you a cloud-based architecture today you talked about modules and things like that or are you a combination are you still migrating.
| 17:41.40 | Richard | Yet no were were. We're fully cloud I mean we we had the as look looking back. We had the we had the the fortune to to recode all of our technology stack Back. We started around about 2008 2009 we were. We were lotus notes back then I don't know if you remember that but in terms of you know, a lot of the things contracts shipping documents. It's all about workflow and communication and that kind of stuff. Um, and so when lotus notes sort of ceased to be um.
| 18:00.94 | chrissass | I do.
| 18:19.39 | Richard | It's like okay well, there's an existential event for us to to try to to Navigate. So we we started moving things over to the Cloud early on um and part of that process was we don't want to be um, we we don't want to be tied too much into any 1 particular technology. Um, let's try and keep things modular so that we don't have any obsoles obsolescence issues later on I say future proof. Um, as as much as you can of course um, and. And yes, so we've we've had maybe 13 years of of developing cloud solutions I mean we're on our we're on our sixth version of our cloud platform today. Um, so whether that answers your question enough.
| 19:08.00 | chrissass | It does um but having been in the software business for some period of time Cloud is a very ambiguous term and it means many things to many people. So maybe it'd be helpful if you describe what you mean by Cloud and what your implementation is.
| 19:14.82 | Richard | His E climb.
| 19:21.96 | Richard | Right? Okay, so multi-tenanted across lots of servers. Um, that's then managing um a lot of clients and the stuff that they need to do what it's not is a sort of a screen scrape or putting some sort of. Cloud window onto the the old database I mean we had a complete rewrite of everything coming from you I mean from lotus notes you have to um so you know having your your sql databases having the the web servers having the the browser languages. So you know having a a browser interface having it looking nice as a web page should rather than a database sort of look and feel that that that was around at the time. Um, so yeah, Multitenanted. It's not hosted on our servers. It's hosted on you know Aws or azure. Whatever um, and you know web browser mobile first that kind of technology.
| 20:28.58 | Martin | Okay, cool and in that context I mean how does or what I can see is that clients when they move to the Cloud or get new solutions that are in the cloud already. It's quite a. Effort sometimes for them for for integrating their solutions. Their systems that they have their processes. So how does this integration look like for a chin 10 user or client that is maybe new and do you support the client along that journey.
| 20:58.42 | Richard | Yeah, sure, not a very good point. Um, you know I would say it's easier to integrate today. Um, you know you need the apis you have web services available to you as well as you know the lower tech flat file sort of transactions. But um, you know that. That it's centrally managed for us rather than we have to try to maintain things on our client servers. You have a huge ah you you have a huge benefit there in terms of scalability etc in terms of response times. Ah and in terms of the overall you know the end of the day bill. Time of materials. For example, um, so you know we needed to make sure that we had our apis in place that we had web services so that we could have deals come in to create contracts in our platform I mean let me say that we when we approached this we thought. Let's not do another monolithic system. Let's make this modular. Let's make an ecosystem of things. Um because we will do stuff that we're good at and there will be other services out there that rather than us try to build and compete that we should be you know, working better together with these other offerings. So that the client at the end of the day is able to make use of technology. Um, sensibly, but um, you know without that huge expense that they were at the time accustomed to um and and to get a more a more nimble. Footprint a more nimble ecosystem sort of um ah yeah, technology stack.
| 22:36.40 | Martin | Okay, so ah, would you say that gen 10 solution is based on a microservice architecture.
| 22:45.13 | Richard | Ah, there are microservices involved I mean we we did try back in the data. Let's go everything microservices fortunately, that was at a time when google was starting to say hold on a second. Maybe that's not the best thing because ah, you know. The time that it takes all the latency that can be involved when you have to go to some other service authenticate in order to get ah a conversion of a unit of measure or something like that. Um, so microservices in that place is fantastic. You know, um, but it's not the be all and end. All. For a cloud-based solution modular modular I think is better modular with apis I think is is a better way to to think of a cloud offering I think than microservices.
| 23:32.59 | Martin | Okay, understood and in terms of user interaction I mean I strongly assume of course there's a Ui where users work on the screen directly and in case there is maybe services or functionality that the user would like to have. Is it possible for the user beside building it outside and connecting it via the api is it. It also possible that the the user can develop it within the Chin 10 solution as a service For example, so having something like an integrated development environment where the user can then.
| 24:03.30 | Richard | For.
| 24:09.51 | Martin | Builds own functionality.
| 24:09.86 | Richard | Um, yeah, they they tend to rely on us to to to do that. It is not they they they have a lot of things at the disposal in terms of the configurability of the system the look and feel the.
| 24:15.31 | Martin | No.
| 24:26.44 | Richard | How things are presented on the screen and users have a lot of preferences and everything. Um, but when it comes to when it comes to Integrating. We'd be working with with their teams if you like to develop those web services so that we're connecting correctly and you know. But it's something that takes days to weeks these days. It's not a big huge integration monster of a project. Yeah.
| 24:50.72 | Martin | Okay, understood would like to refer back or go back a bit to the topic data that you mentioned because I think that's really a very crucial topic for all players almost all players in the market to have the data straight. Ah, ideally, centralized to get most value out of data. Um, what? what was a bit unclear to me when you explained your let's say strategy or where um, what role data does play for you was if Chin 10 Um, as a solution. Is also a data management solution. So Maybe you have a module that collects data stores data validates data and distributes data or whether this is something a functionality that you rely on the client to solve. So Maybe the client has a central. Data management solution that you connect then via Api to your functionality and your solution. So How does it work in terms of data storage and distribution.
| 25:49.86 | Richard | Yeah I mean we we do manage an awful lot of data across somebody's physical supply chains and how they need to hedge it and how they need to finance it? Um, so yes, we are data managers for within within our realm. Um, if you sure, but but we also assist in you know, creating a data lake that is getting our data into the data lake and getting other data from other sources into that 1 place so that they can have you know they can do run their analytics. Across not just our ctrm data. Um, but other other other apps that we have around ah around sustainability or marketplace activity and stuff like that. Um, or with you know other software as a service other ah other. Other platforms out there as well. Um, so yes, lot of data to manage ourselves and we make sure that it's not just the data but it's the state of the data. Um, because Workflow is such a huge part of people's business in these supply chains. Um. But it's about making sure that our data is accessible and consumable by something else such as a data warehousing solution where they can bring it all together.
| 27:12.60 | Martin | So okay and do you have clients that manage their data um purely through your ctm solution that do not really have a data Lake or a centralized data management but rather rather import it to your okay.
| 27:24.87 | Richard | You ever do most of them. Yeah, yeah.
| 27:31.40 | Martin | It seems like you provide some some very good data management functionality then because that's by far, not easy to manage data in ah in a streamlined vein data versioning autoprove reconciliation. So.
| 27:44.19 | Richard | Yeah, yeah, no it it is I mean we we couldn't we couldn't do it after our first birthday but we're 21 now so yeah we've we've been through the mill a few times in order to get to where we are. Yeah.
| 27:50.51 | Martin | Yeah, okay, okay, understood. So in terms of um, Cloud solution coming back I mean jumping a bit back now. Um, how does your support and maintenance model look like is it a fully serviced solution. Um, or yeah.
| 28:17.87 | Richard | It's pretty fully fully managed service. You know the idea is that well first of all the technology side is not a headache for our clients other than making sure that that the the internet connection is as reliable and as fast as they can Afford. Um. And yet we we we look we look after all of the rest of it so that the ideal world is and and it's a ah real world for us our clients log in usename and password they get the business end of things done on the platform.
| 28:45.23 | chrissass | Probably.
| 28:54.15 | Richard | Um, if they've if they've got a question. You've got digital ah videos that you can refer back to which gives everybody a lot of scalability and you know On- Demand knowledge. Um, and and then of course we're always available. Um, for direct contact if they need any additional help. Um, but it tends to be for new projects which is exciting.
| 29:20.32 | chrissass | Okay, I'll go ahead and ask so I've been sitting here patiently waiting for an opportunity. So So I think what? what I heard you, you talk about the data you talked about being in the cloud and being modular architecture I Guess what I'd be interested in maybe switching gears and talk about. You know, an ecosystem of partners and and do you use that modularity just internally for modules that your customer might want to use or it's a modularity offering also partners in an ecosystem kind of environment in your solution.
| 29:51.23 | Richard | Absolutely I mean yes, it is for our for our other for our modules and our other apps as well. But it it was it was seen as we're not going to do all of everything for everybody. Um that you need to be able to connect. And and leverage other people's technologies so that the client has has the best of Breeds you know ability to digitally transform today rather than wait 5 years for the technology to be old in in time to start using it. You know so ah.
| 30:23.50 | chrissass | So Then so based on that. So So of the core competence. What? what are your strengths then like where where would you say hey go to Gen 10 these these Modules. You definitely want to get from us and then what. You know, maybe paint a picture of how some of your customers might augment the solution. What would they be adding in.
| 30:40.74 | Richard | Yeah, okay, so um, I mean everything from from from pre-deal through to you know we have ah a fully fledged contract management module that can be standalone in itself. You don't need all of the rest of of the modules. Um. It's it's quite surprising how how how many contracts still need to be done outside of the current etrm system in order to get it correct and the whole workflow process. The digital signatures and everything um, but everything really starts from that we have a crm module we have our contracts. Ah, and you get that that that contract piece right? it it makes the scheduling. It makes all of the operations. It makes the communication between front middle and office middle and back office work so much better together. Um, you know through the. Logistics the shipping opening and chasing of the ah chasing an opening of the letters of credit. Um, you know workflowing release requests to the bank before some inventories can leave the warehouse or the silo or whatever. Um, you know. All the way through to invoicing and payment where we would integrate is with an erp or an accounting system. You know general ledger. We have all the costs and we have all of the revenues but we would integrate with ah with an erp system whether it's Sap or whether it's Microsoft dynamics business central great plains. Sage we've done. Um, we're doing netsuite now Netsuite is getting very popular in the states. Um, we're integrating with like vessel satellite tracking services obviously things like Google maps and other apis that we can leverage and we you know we do get asked a lot How do we reconcile with our broker statements better. Um, you know which is why like a lot of what fideus is doing um, yeah things like that I think when blockchain um platforms start to become start to gain traction. Ah, you know it'll be a lot about integrating with those and how we have our workflow engine. It's critical to being able to communicate our workflow engine. Our web service is critical to being able to to communicate with these these blockchain platforms. In a 2 wo-way process too. So.
| 33:10.29 | Martin | And so I heard quite a number of interesting functionality and components that you provide to your users. Um, what about valuation and risk management So to um, measure your performance on a daily basis or a weekly basis monthly Basis. And also of course having the right risk numbers in place to monitor whenever you need to react as risk manager.
| 33:34.37 | Richard | Yeah, yeah, sure. So um, I mean we bring in all of the prices from the Hundred plus commodities that that we manage. Um, we have a ah formula engine that helps people construct some pretty exotic pricing formula or you know. Piegas benzene those kinds of things copper concentrate a whole other beast where you've got 3 or possibly even 6 different commodities that need to be priced along with a number of different penalties for ah you know for for contaminant, particles, etc. Um, you know so getting the pricing sorted the first thing and then you know the the hedging module for for your paper futures options and your otc trades as well.
| 34:24.48 | Martin | And okay so your system can at the end of the day spit out a p and L so that a trader or or a mid office a risk person can see what the current Mtm is and maybe realized the you know and on top. Um a user can also See. Um. What the risk. The underlying risk is if some limits have been breached or if the bar is maybe exceeded so that standard functionality right.
| 34:49.56 | Richard | Correct correct yeah and and the beauty is that they they can they can design their own key performance indicators and their own risk limits and by by establishing those. Um. Come back to our workflow engine when somebody wants to pasco to collect 2 hundred dollars. They need to go and check these kpis before something can be approved or before a shipping instruction can be can be sent. They go and check the the global credit limit. Um for for the month or whatever it is. Ah, before trade is done go and check these kpis that my client has set up against them to say yet. It's okay to to trade with them. Um, at the moment so it it is. It is very very integrated um comprehensive but with a vision to. You know as are the services become available that we can leverage we can leverage those those technologies by integrating with them. Um, and it's so much more possible. What you can that doesn't make sense. Ah the kind of things that are possible today because you're in the cloud environment. It's chalk and cheese to experiences over the last twenty 30 years
| 36:06.92 | Martin | Yeah, and what about position management as 1 other key component or functionality is that available at least if I look at a short-term power Trader I mean that's the key source now. Nowadays with all the renewables and the volatility to be at any point in time able to see your positions more or less real-time is that also a strong requirements in the commodities where your clients are active.
| 36:38.75 | Richard | Um, it's but but but it's it's it's measured measured more in days I guess rather than in Minutes in in in power. Um, but I mean you know if you have an etrn system that doesn't give you position management. Um.
| 36:40.26 | Martin | And if yes, ah how how does it work in your solution. Ah.
| 36:57.75 | Richard | Question is you know it's ah you've got to ask yourself bigger questions than um, but but you know to to evolve that question though you know a position report For example that there is no 1 position report even if you stick within the same commodity. Everybody has their own sort of take there's and our job is to find where are the constant culalities and where do we need to build in additional flexibility so that they can slice and dice their position. In different ways I mean I hopefully we'll get to talk about um about carbon and environmental markets shortly. But um, you know how you how how you can massage and how you can extend your position reporting is key. Because otherwise you're locked and confined into this box that you know as going back to your renewables. Ah, your old position report doesn't work when you have all of these different sources of inventories that you need to manage.
| 38:09.60 | Martin | So okay understood I think you mentioned ah and a brilliant word here carbon. Um, that's I think not just important for your clients but all over the industry utilities but also chemistry. Yeah.
| 38:22.38 | Richard | The world. Maybe.
| 38:26.92 | Martin | So maybe elaborate a bit more how important is that for your client base and and of course then for your solutions and offerings.
| 38:33.70 | Richard | Yeah I mean so gen 10 we didn't set out to be a ctrm vendor. We wanted to provide digital solutions to facilitate commodity supply chains more more sustainably more efficiently and more profitably for our customers. And a big part of that was to show how being more sustainable is not a cost because people you know when even today some people think of sustainability as being a cost center rather than a potential for profit. Ah, but to show how how those things can work work Better. Um. So we we were looking around ah around carbon in carbon 1 point zero Two Thousand 8 2009 and I mean we're really excited I mean to to to coin my my my colleague. My colleague's phrase. The world's gone bonkers in terms of. Um, what's happening in the carbon markets today. Um, and it affects everybody. You know it's not just commodity traders. It's the commodity consumers. It's the end consumer, etc, etc. So ah, it's ah it's a big part. And we're just glad that. Ah, we have another opportunity and it looks like it's here to stay this time around. Um where we can help facilitate. Um the the movement of cash towards much needed projects at the origination of carbon credit side and managing the. The huge volatility that we're going to see in the in the carbon credit market um, on the on the consuming side where people have a footprint that they need to you know measure their risk against and see how much is going to cost them to get these carbon credits and to help facilitate that flow of cash and the to to help around. The you know the the concerns around fraud concerns around green washing and things like that data plays a so more more important power in carbon than anything else because you can't see it. Um, so you have to be able to track it digitally and this is something that's been a passion of hours. Both. Ah, ever since I came down to brazil to try and plant Bamboos. Ah as a carbon sequester back in 2010 for example, but yeah and like you know we we just went to market around cop 26 with with our brand new platform net Zero os. Which is all about managing those portfolios managing those credits and managing the volatility that people will will be facing over the years
| 42:55.38 | Martin | So I understood Richard that and you launched ah quite recently a platform Aspermana standing that helps clients to manage their.
| 43:06.10 | Richard | Um, yeah, yeah, um.
| 43:17.92 | Martin | Carbon Inventory and I think that's something that will be more and more important in the future for more and more companies in the world. So maybe you can explain a bit to our audience. What is it about and what it exactly provides to the user.
| 43:30.67 | Richard | Yeah, so um, again, we've taken the ecosystem approach where we have different modules for different things because it's all about digitally transforming these these processes so we have things that they are written so in the column you have the origination of the credits. Have the people who are buying and selling the the the credits on the on the registries. Um and and compiling portfolios to to package up for utility companies author fmcg you know the the biggest thousand companies in the world will have this huge. Um, Net zero commitment that they need to manage and you know whilst they'll be improving on their technologies in order to reduce the the impact. Um they will need to use offsets right? So um, if not green washing. It's it's it's finding ways to. To to finance projects for planting trees or for cookstos in Africa where that money wouldn't otherwise be available to do those things so it's it's great to be part of it to be honest, um, and so. You look at it in terms of so we have something that will help ah vet and audit a potential project for for investing in so we call that audit um or dot it. Um, and that's a way of setting up your kpis to to do your your due diligence on the project. Ah, we have ah a marketplace to help with the offers and bids and the transacting to to converge those offers and bids into a trade. Um, so nice you know, ah Marketplace board there for for the pre deal negotiation digitally. Um, and that itself integrates with net zero os that will manage then the the rest of the contract. Um the inventories, the allocations. Um the pricing of these because some of these are long term 30 year projects that you need to price and as this it's it's It's a nascent market again in its second running. Ah, but it's it's going to quickly become more mature where you will have established price indices. Um, you know I guess ifs market sp global you know they're all trying but there'll be another. Ah, bunch of other registries out there as well and then for the utility companies for the fmcg companies where they have they they need to measure their carbon. Um, there's thousands of carbon calculators out there. But once you know what you've got to do ah it's the business end.
| 46:11.51 | Richard | Of being able to manage all of that is what we do and so we tackle it from from both sides the origination and the people who need to do the offsets and you've got that full traceability that we learned from Cotton Ah, you have so many different qualities grades and pricing components Premiums discounts. Ah, the ability to add other esg goals um premiums to it and it's it's fascinating. Um, and it's great to be part of it. Yeah.
| 46:39.58 | chrissass | So is that um you said it's a newer product for you is that out in commercial use right now that product.
| 46:46.40 | Richard | Ah, yes, yes, um, it's it's been been a few years in in in the making. Um, and yeah, it's it's going going going great guns. Um, and and so many segues back to the commodity clients that we have where they need to manage something it.
| 46:56.33 | chrissass | And so the market.
| 47:05.48 | Richard | So We have something where they can not only trade the the oil the hydrocarbons um the metals and the cotton and the grains but they can also set up a carbon desk straight away as well within the same ecosystem. So That's great. But then there's also The. The the impact that they need to reduce and so any offsets they need to buy themselves are you know we we we can integrate those systems together then to give that full transparency that full Trace Bills Traceability back to origin? yeah.
| 47:40.21 | chrissass | So is is this uniquely a gen 10 thing or do you see your competitors going down a similar path.
| 47:46.50 | Richard | Um I don't know what?? What's what's happening in the in the ctrm Etrm space. Um, and the the competition is that the the people who have been in in the in the environmental markets part and the carbon Markets. You know. Like I say there's thousands of calculators out there. Um,, there's a lot of project management tools for for managing the reforestation projects. Um, So so yeah, it's it's ah it's a sector that we're expecting to. To to be really exciting over the coming years.
| 48:26.91 | Martin | So But what I understand a bit is ah your Usb might be that you combine both you have on the 1 side a carbon calculator but at the same time and I think there are many calculators as you mentioned at the same time you integrated with the daily trading business for um. Yeah, traditional trading oil metals. Whatever clients are looking at and that sounds to my understanding a bit front-running. How do you see that.
| 48:58.64 | Richard | it's it's it's nice to hear you say so we think so too. Of course, um, but it's ah it's a product of a number of years of looking at it and my my my colleague Bruce toser he was there in carbon 1 point zero with jp Morgan setting up the first carbon markets thing. Um, and you know waiting patiently over that decade or so to to now it looks like some something. Well, it's definitely happening now. So you know it. It's great.
| 49:28.77 | Martin | Yeah, and are you getting approached by um, potential clients and leader.
| 49:33.38 | Richard | The phone has been ring off well. The phone's been ringing off. No it really it really has it's been it's been it's it's been great um and you know again coming back to all the lessons. We've learned to get things in the cloud and how we help to onboard people. Um, you know they need solutions in there now because their spreadsheets don't pass due diligence or you know it's ah, an older system or something but um, you know that we can deliver it quickly. Um that we can give them a fully managed service so they can focus on the carbon. Ah, impact and try to reduce you know, try to honor the net zero commitments. Um and will manage the the data side of it. Yeah.
| 50:19.70 | Martin | Okay, thanks for elaborating on your new product on Net zero carbon in that Context. They're really interesting I would like to since we moving towards the end change the topic a bit to to Automation. You can talk 2 or 3 minutes about that part. Um, usually we ask? um Etm vendors that have a strong focus on on power and gas what they are offering in terms of automation explicitly in terms of algo trading or automated trading. So in that context is that a topic on the rise for your clients to have rule-based ah trading strategies in place.
| 51:06.16 | Richard | Yeah I mean on the on on the power and guest side I mean it's Great. What fidector are have done in those markets and we can't wait for them to start providing the same kind of services in these other you know more physical more. Well less less commodity-like commodities with all of these exceptions. You know when something's very standard and Clean. It's easy. But when you when you see some of the broker statements that we see that we tried to Ocr and reconcile with you know, um.
| 51:32.23 | Martin | Yep.
| 51:43.46 | Richard | If we if we had the resources. We'd be looking at it as well, right? But yeah.
| 51:45.46 | chrissass | But we we should probably talk about that. So if ah, this is a podcast protectus is my day job. This isn't a fact to show. We certainly do broker statements today and we do carbon today so we can talk about that off offline from Feneta's point of view. Um, but yeah happy to happy to do that anytime I got a chance to talk about my day job. Um.
| 51:57.21 | Richard | Um, fantastic.
| 52:05.10 | chrissass | But I guess back to Martin's point is is it relevant to to your core competence in in the you know algo trading is is is there a crossover point or is it more like you're saying because it's clean and the speed of of power and gas is is maybe different.
| 52:22.32 | Richard | Well, where you where you have a lot of otcs. For example, it you know have have you have you heard of any algo trading ah in the otc market in petrochemicals For example, dumb.
| 52:22.96 | chrissass | Is it a different game.
| 52:36.61 | Martin | Yeah, or it maybe I think if you have high liquidity and a bit of aalalization. It can work but um for a way of an expert there. You'll but this see a bit of you.
| 52:43.69 | Richard | Exactly? Um, Yeah I'm um, possibly I'm segrating not to not to avoid the question but the the bigger question there is you know and blockchain as Well. The reason why I like blockchain and the reason why I like. Ah, this this topic on automated trading underlying it all. It's ah it's a standardization phase that everybody needs to go through so that we can find some sort of pattern that you that you can safely Automate. You know if people have ah have a remit to. Be well 1 hundred percent hedged all the time in real time. Um, if those if those futures trades and I mean there's a lot of future trades. Obviously that are standardized and and and you can do that. But if it's not just that if you're doing swaps and it I haven't found a client yet.
| 53:34.75 | Martin | Yeah.
| 53:39.38 | Richard | Who who wants a computer to make sure that they're fully hedged yet. It's kind of like how they were a bit nervous about cloud back in the day than not today. But um, you know they they still need somebody in in involved in some of those decisions because. There are a number of variables at play. But as things get standardized and in the gas market especially in europe or with the work that's gone on there to standardize things. Um, you know you can now do that? Um, so that's the big topic moving forward and I've been on plenty of podcasts that have been. On that soapbox about itself.
| 54:19.29 | chrissass | Yeah, So so so I guess you know we got the answer to the automation but it begs the question to Me. Where's your general footprint. Globally I think we talked a little offline before we we entered. But for our audience you know where where do you generally have your core footprint of users.
| 54:36.11 | Richard | Yeah, um I mean we we don't we don't have we don't have thousands of customers. But I mean we are in europe we are in Asia and we are in in in the americas um, so it's global work work where where are the most I mean we see.
| 54:49.20 | chrissass | And.
| 54:54.47 | Richard | Ah there's a lot of things happening but there's a lot of things happening everywhere pointless to say a lot of things happening in Singapore today because it's equally relevant in geneva and london and in the states as well. So and I'm I'm over in Brazil so there's a lot of things happening on. On the on the ags and forestry and the solar markets down here that that needs some help on the computer side of things as well. So.
| 55:21.17 | chrissass | Awesome! Ah Martin is we're as we're approaching towards the end of our time any areas that you still think we should cover that we we neglected in this interview today.
| 55:31.30 | Martin | No I think we should move on. Fantastic. Yeah.
| 55:34.48 | chrissass | All right? So I think we've got a ah pretty broad rushtroke and we've gone all over the place. What I propose we do is we switch gears now and go into our speed round our speed round is 10 questions. We've asked every vendor participating in our e m miniseries. Um, basically we're just gonna alternate back and forth I will start by asking their first question I'll revert to Martin we'll go back and forth just short answers is fine if you want to elaborate or if 1 of us asks a question feel free to do so so here we go um, first question will the number of vendors for each your m solutions.
| 56:02.90 | Richard | Okay, yeah.
| 56:08.59 | chrissass | Shrink or expand in the future in your opinion. Why? um.
| 56:10.60 | Richard | Expand Um, the will There's there's a lot a lot of opportunity out there. Um, there's a lot of desk spinoffs. Um.
| 56:27.80 | chrissass | Um, okay, it's great I just here and that's good I just curious sounds great Martin you're up.
| 56:28.20 | Richard | Yeah I I'm trying I keep it short for your 10 questions. So 30
| 56:33.41 | Martin | Okay, brilliant second question how many deals per minute must a modern etm or a ctm system today. Be capable to import.
| 56:45.52 | Richard | Um, perb um that that's in your power and gas side. Um, more relevant up. Yeah than it can have a different second question if you like.
| 56:48.80 | Martin | Per minute deals per minute. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, well I would assume that in that context your solution since you provide Standard Apis would not have an issue um importing more than 2 or 3 deals per minute. Only.
| 56:59.60 | chrissass | Um, okay.
| 57:03.71 | Richard | Yeah, have eleven to use the.
| 57:15.69 | Martin | That is my understanding if you look at your solution. Yeah yeah, understood. Okay, okay.
| 57:16.33 | Richard | Yeah I mean it's hundreds a minute is is the possibility. We just don't have clients who need to bring in hundreds a minute. Yeah.
| 57:26.24 | chrissass | Understood. Alright so what commodity types or energy types. Are you offering today and which ones are your biggest strengths.
| 57:34.90 | Richard | Ah, in energy and it's ah around hydrocarbons oil petrochemicals. Um, and ah if you can say the carbon elements of that. Yes, so.
| 57:49.45 | Martin | Okay, do you offer a real time position Management Module and is a new trade in real time reflected there. So it's it an event based architecture behind it. Okay, thanks. Thanks.
| 57:58.84 | Richard | Um, yes, yes.
| 58:04.15 | chrissass | All right? Um, do you have an automated workflow for straight through processing.
| 58:09.69 | Richard | Um, yes.
| 58:11.56 | Martin | Okay, can your etium or Ctm solution price Asian options which model it's behind it if you know that by default by hard.
| 58:18.60 | Richard | Um, yes.
| 58:24.90 | Richard | I I don't know I I just know that they are valuing those over there. Um, and I've not seen any support tickets.
| 58:30.65 | Martin | Okay, okay, okay, fantastic.
| 58:35.66 | chrissass | No worries are you offering a full integration and implementation service.
| 58:40.97 | Richard | Yes, because we're in the cloud. It's a lot easier to do and we have a lovely process for onboarding people um digitally and in the ever.
| 58:54.50 | Martin | Okay, what do you think is the biggest threat or challenge for a third -party ctm venor.
| 58:54.77 | chrissass | That's good. Thank you.
| 59:05.68 | Richard | The biggest challenge. Um, Pull biggest challenge for them or biggest threat to us sorry threat. Oh.
| 59:17.83 | Martin | Let's say threat to you? Yeah, like technology or I don't know regulatory impact.
| 59:23.74 | Richard | Someone doing better better faster and cheaper than us. But you know they they'd be doing a fantastic job if they could.
| 59:30.43 | Martin | Okay.
| 59:32.18 | chrissass | What is your licensing model look like today and you anticipate changes in it in the near future
| 59:37.98 | Richard | Um, we are well we're ah software as a service subscription-based model. Um and some are user-based and others are transaction-based others are volume based it depends on a number of things. Which sector which pass the supply chain you in etc. Do I see anything changing in the future. Um, probably not no I think that's the that's how it'll be for a while.
| 59:56.85 | chrissass | Okay.
| 01:00:05.96 | chrissass | All right? thanks.
| 01:00:07.49 | Martin | Okay, then last question is probably an easy 1 for you. So are you offering api or apis and what is the technology behind it.
| 01:00:17.24 | Richard | Um, we have Apis We you're asking me technology questions. Um I mean the the restful web services.
| 01:00:29.64 | Martin | Okay, okay, great. Thanks.
| 01:00:33.75 | chrissass | Well fantastic. You gotten through the 10 questions successfully appreciate that um would it like to give you an opportunity to do is an opportunity to maybe bring this all together in more of a concise way a minute or 2 description of why.
| 01:00:37.83 | Richard | Um, then your if some.
| 01:00:50.90 | chrissass | Audience might want to reach out to gen 10
| 01:00:51.44 | Richard | Um, sure I mean if you if you if you've got a lot of ah, a lot of commodity. A lot of different commodities moving around the world and they need to be priced in whether it's vanilla ways or very exotic ways. Um, you Know. We have our main focus is around operational risk and making sure that the the ground level things are done for you. Ah correctly, responsibly and with the correct audit trails that you can then make sound business decisions On. Um So I think the operational risk is Key. Ah, to to to everything really? Um I think um is that is that is is that sufficient. It's around that and of course if you have some carbon exposure that you're trying to trade or whether you're trying to offset. You should certainly give us a call because um, we we have some solutions that will make that job a lot easier. And it's available today.
| 01:02:08.82 | chrissass | Well thank you so much richard we've enjoyed having you on the each year and mini series. Thank you for participating.
| 01:02:14.74 | Richard | Thank you chris thank you Martin! Um, and I think what what you guys have have been trying to do to get the vendors together on these podcasts is ah is is a good project. Um I'm happy to support it.
| 01:02:27.60 | chrissass | Well thank you so much for our audience this concludes another episode of insider's guide to energy eacher and miniseries. Don't forget there are 13 episodes out there if you haven't listened to every vendor, please take a look at the website insider's guide to energy.
| 01:02:27.11 | Martin | Thank you richard.
| 01:02:45.32 | chrissass | Each vendor has a page and links and you can find the data there and we look forward to hearing feedback from you our audience. Thanks again for listening have a good day.
| 01:02:53.54 | Richard | Thanks guys.