This week Chris and Johan are joined by Marco Terruzzin, Chief Product Officer at Energy Vault SA. Their technology uses the basic idea of potential and kinetic energy to lift and lower bricks to store and retrieve energy. Energy Vault has experienced very steep growth, they have recently raised $100 Mio. in capital through a Series C fundraising round followed by an announcement to list on the NYSE. Listen in, to find out what use cases they are aiming for and why software is so essential.
This week Chris and Johan are joined by Marco Terruzzin, Chief Product Officer at Energy Vault SA. Their technology uses the basic idea of potential and kinetic energy to lift and lower bricks to store and retrieve energy. Energy Vault has experienced very steep growth, they have recently raised $100 Mio. in capital through a Series C fundraising round followed by an announcement to list on the NYSE. Listen in, to find out what use cases they are aiming for and why software is so essential.
Broadcasting from the commodity capital of the world, Zurich, Switzerland, this is ‘Insiders Guide to Energy’.
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| Timestamp | Speaker | Transcript
| 06:18.19 | Welcome to insider's guide to energy I'm your host chris sass in with me as co-host Johann oberg johan how's going this week
| 06:53.85 | Johan | Hi chris great to be on the show again another week it's been a weird week here in Switzerland due to the fact that the kids are off but I gave me an opportunity to have a few days off as well. How you doing.
| 07:08.20 | chrissass | I'm doing well I've been up in the mountains I just got back from ah flims I was up there doing some mountain biking with my family for a few days and took the train home to get home in time to record this show today. So.
| 07:16.37 | Johan | Perfect. Yeah I was on I was on on the driving into germany but it was an interesting fact. You know when when you have your energy eye on as as well as your marketing eye. Ah I had the opportunity to take my son to euro park which is a big amusement park in Germany. He's been on his wish list for a long long time. So okay, we'll do it. The funny thing is that when we get into the coolest ride of them all my marketing eye kind of start twitching a little bit because you can see that the whole thing is sponsored. And it's not sponsored by anyone. It's actually sponsored by Nord stream 2 which is quite of an interesting point whereas it's powered by nordstream but also the whole thing around how they how they put it down in the baltic sea how it works etc so it was an interesting thing and and you know I like. Caught the eye of this and then bringing it back to the show because I think it've been interesting thing moving forward to see reasoning behind sponsoring a theme park ride with the exhibition part of it not just to ride but just an observation.
| 08:20.40 | chrissass | So so why would you? Why would you do that just to to get buy in from the general population that Nords seem true is something good or like what what? what marketing value is that.
| 08:26.12 | Johan | Um, you know what? and you know what I thought about this we have on this show you know different ways of of addressing the energy industry we set as a complex industry with not just producing the energy but market the energy. But also the politics around it and and you know without going in too much of northstream too. I think this is obviously 1 1 ish part of it. You know it's lobbying as well as it is the sponsorship but it's a new way maybe of putting it through the kids so they'll be the ones who start. But start asking the questions I don't know pretty but is an interesting kind of an interesting concept.
| 09:01.90 | chrissass | Well I think that you know, starting talking about kids when I think about today's show and and we're gonna have energy vault as our guest and if you watch the videos and things that they do. It reminds me of games and things I did as a kid because if you've ever stacked bricks up. And ever played with like remote control cranes and done really cool things to a kid. This is a company. You're probably going to go to go work at because they have some badass technology that stacks things up taller than you can imagine and it's it like having a huge erector set or lego set where you're building stuff but yet it it solves a problem for. For us in in the environment and for the grid. Um, and I'm really excited to get there I mean we we got this episode pretty much lined up because our newest producer when he first came on and about his second week on the show. He said hey chris can can I have input into the content I'm like yeah producers help pick the show and he goes. This really cool company in Switzerland any chance we could have them on and you sent me the link and I'm like these guys have some really cool stuff and I want to find out more about it and so you know I sent you the link but what is what is your first thing thinking of us you on.
| 10:09.32 | Johan | And but but but but I agree with you and I think we've had we've had on the show before we had a few shows ago. We had the the mining storage we've had a few you know we talked about a number of batteries and and all these things when we talk about grid scale and storage. But. Ah, think this is fascinating and I I have a lot to learn about this because this is fairly new to me. But as you said is it. It looks pretty amazing. But what biggest question I always have is where are we in terms of timelines regarding these larger scale energy storages because they're There's so much new technology coming out of them into the market now and we have on the show when we see in the news but we're also at the same time now in I wouldn't call it some kind of an energy crisis in europe because we cannot store the energy enough when it comes to renewables. So. It's a little bit I'm interesting to hear the timelines a little bit when do we have these available when can we actually start using these fantastic technologies on scale so we can start really harmonizing and monetizing the renewable energy.
| 11:18.43 | chrissass | well well I think we should ask our guest that I mean I think it's also interesting that this company is in Switzerland or has their prototype in Switzerland because for gravity fed energy I mean Switzerland's got a lot of hydra we're we're in a country that's been doing this kind of stuff for a long time so to see kind of a new take on that. It's interesting to hear with the perspective of how it end up here as well. So but rather than us going back and forth like we always do let's bring our guest on board and find out from him so I'm going to introduce marco tourine marco welcome to the program.
| 11:48.57 | Marco Terruzzin | Um, nice media and thank you for having me.
| 11:51.42 | chrissass | Well, we're as you can tell we're anticipating great things from the show. We're excited because you've got some really exciting technology but before we go there. Maybe you can tell us a little bit about your company and a little bit about yourself personally.
| 12:04.12 | Marco Terruzzin | Yeah, the company is a very notative company with a technology as you say that that is addressing 1 of the the biggest challenges that the energy sector and in general the economy is facing in these in these decades. The transition to a decarbonized economy. This is something that a scientist has been trying to address for decades but ah, very often. It happened that only when the problem is self-evitent when people they face directly. You know the consequences of a problem of policy Regulators and the economy in general start To. Address that problem directly and ah Joan was talking about ah when these technology can be available when these technologies are available. These technologies are available and I think that we are at the verge of an inflection point. Ah, and ah we see already. You know the introduction of a massive amount of renewable energy. But at the same time requires storage because ah the electrical system for ah, a century has been designed on the concept of just in time and ah the lack of ability to store Electricity has been ah, a problem. Ah. That ah kept the entire industry related to Fossil Fuel generation now that we understand that that is an issue and and we need to migrate to a system ah with that essentially no carbon or at least the less carbon intensive ah storage is essential for this transition.
| 13:32.25 | chrissass | And so so you're focused on storage now I've got I've already been to your website I've already seen videos and stuff. But maybe you should talk a little bit about what kind of storage you do and what you do for storage.
| 13:45.32 | Marco Terruzzin | Yeah, this is very interesting. Maybe I tell you a little bit about myself so you may and and and the and the audience can understand the perspective of I have been working in the utilityities sector for for several years I am a mechanical engineer and this is kind of interesting because you know ultimatelyly. I'm taking advantage of some phsic classes that I but I learned that you know the the council Bob ah potential energy back in high school and and at the beginning of years at the university so that is interesting I also had a ph d in energy economics. Ah I study in the us with my master in a. My mba and all of this is to say that ah energy is kind of a ah straightforward concept. But at the same time has a lot of ah nuances that it requires multiple angle to be implemented effectively. So technical consideration. Ah. Ah, Market consideration and and and also there is a social aspect that because ah, these technology these investment are pretty massive and they require support from. Ah you know, politicians or regulators and in general you know the taxpayer and the and the and the rate payers. Ah um I think that ah um. When a a few years ago I used to work for ah for a utility at that time the the big effort ah was to identify technologies with both the the potential and the sustainability to be deployed on a large scale. On multiple continents and ah for sure pumped hydro and I had the pleasure also to live and work in Switzerland for 3 years that you know some years ago is zeroi. Yeah, it's been always a the ah storage technology of reference ah to solve. Many problems represented ah by the ah just in time characteristic of the electricity sector or however pumped hydro is related to a special condition. You cannot have a pumped tidra plant. Ah everywhere. Every in every city or everywhere you have additional load so it has been ah a great resource for the first ah hundred years of this experience with electricity on large scale. But ah it has become also the bottleneck for the expansion. So um. We started to look into um the most convenient technology five 6 years ago you know when ah I used to work ah in the utility sector and at that time batteries looked like ah the potential alternative but even batteries they start to have some.
| 16:32.10 | Marco Terruzzin | Ah, evident limitation both in terms of cost and also sustainability for their supply chain ah materials coming from parts of the world where um, there may be some issue you know in the way that these material are procured and. Energy vault I think I had ah a very simple intuition that was based on leveraging existing technology technology like a pumped hydro that are very well understood ah and trying to convert. Ah a pumped hydro in a. Ah, technology that I could be located ah where the problem exists and so ah, it was a anerative process that I started back in 2017 the company really took advantage of that a very creative minds in particular the ceoto comes from Switzerland. So and 1 more reason why you know we are having also this for ah with some tie back to the to the to the country to switzman and um and so with a few iteration ah the company realized that ah there are a few but few interesting things ah in using potential energy. Localize wherever the problem ah is evident. Ah first the the round trip efficiency and that means essentially the efficiency that ah ah, you have when you lift and lower the large masses is pretty high so the losses are not. Significant and this is an excellent starting point because ah that implies that ah the customer the users of this technology. They are not affected ah by big losses and that is important because ah ultimately that the electricity market. Ah, it's a market aware cost. It's essential. To make a technology viable. The second aspect was related to the fact that ah using Smart. Ah um, ah, manufacturing process for the manufacturing of the bricks. Ah these ah heavy masses that we lift and lower was something possible. And thanks to partners in the material science. We have been able to define formulas for this material that allows us to have a very very low cost. Ah for the manufacturing of these mobile masses. Everything else. Ah, after we were confident about these 2 elements ah was a matter of using. Very sound engineering principle to put together. What was the original design of the system that we call the ev 1 and we have a 1 of these system installed in the sa part ofwitzlandor that's become kind of an iconic location because of for.
| 19:24.38 | Marco Terruzzin | Not only for the industry but also for schools for ah for ah for people that want to educate themselves ah on Ah, how ultimately intuitive is the concept of storing Electricity. So This was really the the initial start ah of of the company from the concept point of view. To sort out. Ah, what was really the potential to solve the big problem with the technology that is highly scalable.
| 19:53.56 | chrissass | Can you guys hear him? Yeah, so you.
| 19:58.12 | Marco Terruzzin | Nope yeah.
| 19:58.50 | Johan | But when we talk about technology. Ah I think we're going to jump back a little bit into the technology later on but just out of a curiosity question from a commercial side you you mentioned the word customer and and we have on this show discussed a lot of the stakeholders in in the energy industry. But if we look initially now who are your customers who who are the ones that you are taught I can understand. There's an investments part of this 1 part but who is actually the customer because is this the utilities are these the rest is there a combination here. Can you.
| 20:33.26 | Marco Terruzzin | Yeah target customer they are the logic consequences of the size of the problem so by design and strategically we wanted to design a technology that can help ah utilities. And independent power producer to fix their problem. Um, of course in the value in the energy and electricity value chain. You do not have only utilities or independent power producer playing a role into the into the into the economy. For example. In the last 10 years there has been this concept of a prosumer coming up like ah, ah coming up like ah a a relevant part ah of this equation because just thinking about ah a rooftop solar panel for a single-family home. They have become very popular and also very relevant for the distribution and consumption and generation of electricity. However, we believed that? Ah, ah, ah, the time to Market. And the size of the technology that are needed and and the project that are needed to address this transition ah was essential and ah if you put things in perspective. Ah our project. They have an average size of ah 1 ah Hundred megavat hour so we are talking about ah thirty forty million dollars and then rapidly. Just following what the industry needs utilities and independent power producers. Ah, ah we are ah approaching the gigavat hour scale of our plant because ah of just looking at the size of a photovoltaic ah utility scale project. Ah. Rapidly in the last five 6 years we went from ah here in North america size around an average job of 50 to sixty megawatt and now it's it's a necessity to address this transition with size of a photovoltype plant ah around a 3 hundred megawat. The largest planter in the middle east they are already above ah 1 gigawat and the same things that are ah happening also in Australia. So if you want to shift ah and ah I'm addressing now the the pain point ah of this customer if you want to help these customer utilities. Ah, ah, developers ah to make electricity available. Not only when the sun is shining or the wind is blowing. You need to have the ability to store these electricity for example during the day when a solar panel are working at their best but providing these electricity when consumers.
| 23:20.38 | Marco Terruzzin | They need that and very often. Ah now more and more there is a shift ah in the evening more than during the day because during the day there is this ah kind of ah oversupply of a production coming from pv generation window is a little bit more constant. Ah. But ah, the the interesting part of this transition is the very low costs ah of solar panel and they require very low cost of technology to store the electricity and this is where I believe the energy vault ah was a breakthrough the ability to create something a large scale a utility scale. It is really an enabler for the transition ah to a net zero economy with that with size of of units that are in the range of ah 2 3 under megavat hour up to a gigavat hour in. Regional the world like the middle east north america and also australia.
| 24:16.94 | chrissass | So so I've seen at least looking through your website a little bit you know different investors that have invested in this and I think there was 1 in the middle East that caught my attention as Well. That ah are betting in these kind of technologies. But I guess where. Do these set. So I mean these seem like they'd be pretty sizable to get the kind of power that you talked about these are pretty big installations. Correct they're they're tall and big or what kind of footprint. Do they take to meet that kind of a requirement.
| 24:50.89 | Marco Terruzzin | Yeah, so the technology a a gravity energy storage system. Ah um, takes advantage of the force of gravity so that is a the factor that I helped ah the design of these. Technology. Ah, and for example, help us to install systems with a technical life of 35 years because lifting and lowering these large mobile masses. Ah, ah, create a very positive effect that is essentially the lack. Of degradation. Ah during this exercise something that ah for example, using different technology like batteries that are you know a a great contribution to this transition and you know I want to make very clear that. Ah. Is not 1 technology against the other technology. It's really a collaboration of this technology because the problem ah is so big that a humankind. Ah, they really have to collaborate. Ah, among ah, you know every potential development ah to enable this transition. However. Coming back to your question. The force of gravity is ah it is what it is everywhere of the planet and so it's a math to calculate. Ah how much space we need them so on 1 side there is this advantage that we can take ah we can use ah established component. On the other side that we need we need to use a certain. Ah ah, a certain amountful space to deploy this technology for a long period of time. Let's say that. Ah, if we compare our technology with a generational asset like solar. It's marginal the amount of space that ah we needed. To deploy our systems that they have in a height around 1 ah hundred and twenty meters. So it's significant but that is required to ah bring these masses up you know store the energy informs in the form of potential energy and thereafter release lowering these masses. Ah. Release the energy store. So ah, for sure. The technology doesn't fit ah ah a uwa environment like a downtown Manhattan where other technology fit well that use case and that circumstances that's surrounding but it is. Per little in line and with what utilities an independent power producer they need when and where they have to deploy solar and wind that are very often. Ah happen in very remote areas where space is not an issue.
| 27:29.89 | Johan | So. So even if it's space we we've seen from especially the wind parks that there are always you know everyone wants wind but they don't want in their backyard kind of a kind of a thing when it comes to to these hundred something meters. it's it's obviously visibly there it is's kind of difficult to get away from it out of curiosity. Would you have the same thing if you if you built it ah down into the ground almost like ah a shack or a mining would you have the same kind of technology. But. Kind of hide it away.
| 28:09.45 | Marco Terruzzin | Technically that is possible but we come to a cost consideration of digging. A hole is something problematic and and we come here back to what the customer needs the customer and this is really essential. To make sure that this transition is going to happen. You know we we have ah an environmental problem that ah now I think ah is well understood, not only by specialists but also by the public. It's something that I happen at every season for example in California and ah this Summer. It happens also in europe a wildfire that has never happened before with that intensity and are events that are now are getting out of control just to use an example so utilities they are driving these transition. Ah, ah, ah. Using ah adapting generation technology. There are carbon freee like solar wind and wherever is possible hydropower plant. Ah and that their procurement ah is ah associated with buy technology that represent the best fit. And the least cost in comparison. Ah with our procurement plan. So it's essential to take that into consideration to provide a technology that ah fits those requirements so there are some. There are always possibility. You know to Mitigate. Ah. Some aspect ah in a value proposition like ah what do you are saying to dig a hole and a hide that part of the technology but that will come at a higher cost and so it's ah in a certain way. It's an impediment to this transition at the same time I just want to highlight a couple of things we have been able to collect ah interest from ah every utility across the globe. Ah we have been able rapidly to grow to go from ah the ah the foundation of the the launch of the company in 2017 ah to today. Ah. With an announcement that we are going to become a public company. So this is a very interesting story just in 5 years the the soundness of the technology the attractiveness of the economics. Ah, and also the characteristics ah of the product. Ah, they have been ah a greater. Ah, value proposition for utilities and pairing ah gravity with a wind farm and Solar. It's something that ah matches ah what? Ah, not only the utility needs but also in general in general the public ah as accepted ah and a look.
| 30:53.34 | Marco Terruzzin | Ah, in a positive way because what do we have today are a coal power plant ah gas power plant that not only they aesthetically are debatable but ah, they are also creating pollution ah directly with c o 2 and also indirectly with contamination of water in their nearby. Ah urban areas. So nothing is perfected but ah the evidence that a investor like Asarria rammco softbank utilities have invested in this company is. Clear that. Ah we are providing a very supportive solution to this transition. So.
| 31:34.54 | chrissass | So so I've seen significant investment I'm excited about your pending ipo or your going public that that that all makes sense. Um as we talked about in the introduction of the show. We were excited about the technology. But I think we're tap dancing around a little bit I have a follow-up question but might make sense for you to. Tell a little bit about what your solution maybe because we're we're on a podcast. It's like being on the radio right? We need to describe what the solution is so the audience can picture. It. So I I think you've said things like gravity. You know we understand that it's going to use gravity. You understand. There's some sort of height requirement I've I've defined all that of the conversation. But if I were a listener that didn't know energy vault yet. And may not totally picture what you do? So maybe you could take a few minutes and describe it.
| 32:15.41 | Marco Terruzzin | Absolutely and this is probably also 1 of the most exciting parts of ah of ah this this initiative and what we are what we are doing I would say that. Ah, ah, the way that a energy evolveult developed. The technology is probably. The most intuitive way to store ah energy because we are talking about ah ah using the force of gravity and I think that ah everybody can ah quickly imagine that. Ah, when you lifted a mass you are spending energy. it's it's difficult you make an effort in doing that suppose that ah you want to ride with your bike ah to the top of a hill and that you are you are making an effort to to do that and ah, ah in in the in the parallel case riding to the top of a hill. Is equivalent equivalent to charging from the grid using electricity available from the grid ah and store that electricity in the form of a potential energy that means having lifted ah these large volume of masses at Height. So. Up to for example, a hundred meters a hundred and twenty meters at that point at the beauty of our technology is that ah you can preserve that energy store at height without ah exposing to the. Leakage or consumption ah of electricity because there is a natural decay or degradation of that form of energy. It's like a a pumped hydro plant. Ah when you store the water back into the ah upper stream. Ah, ah, Reservevoir. You have data volume stored there and available for whatever as long as you walked. So this is the the first part of ah of the process ah charging at that point. Ah when you need that electricity back and ah, again, we are in a system where electricity. Is on demand people. They go back home in the evening and they turn on their light now they start to charge their electric vehicle. You know this is another very interesting transition that is happening within ah the larger transition ah of these energy Market. There is also transportation. Ah. That is moving toward the electrification something very interesting that is putting additional pressure on the requirement and the need for this transition. So at that point when there is the demand of electricity. Our technology is relatively straightforward because we are able to lower these mobile masses.
| 35:05.50 | Marco Terruzzin | And the electricity The the energy that I was store in the form of potential energy is converted ah in a kinetic energy because these Moby Massses start to accelerate ah down towards the towards the lower part of the system and the kinetic energy. Is moving a a motor generator and a motor generator would does you do creates electricity and so you have the electricity back into the system ah available at the time needed ah by the consumers.
| 35:40.17 | chrissass | Um, and so you're moving blocks. It looked like in the video some It's sort mass and you said there's a poit they they seem like cement big blocks is what they look like to the untrained eye. So so what are these masses that you're moving.
| 35:55.35 | Marco Terruzzin | Yeah, this is another in my opinion. Beautiful part ah of our technology and ultimately value proposition for customer and the economy in general a lot of work that has been done at the energy vault was to make sure that ah the. Essential component of our technology are ah Eco -friendly so um first ah we develop a strategic relate relationship with 1 of our initial partner and initial investors seex ah a company is ah a it's a worldwide company. Ah, 1 of the largest material company worldwhile and they have the r and d so center in Switzerland gave 1 more type you know switzer comes comes up as a a very ir relevant country for the energy sector and ah. Thanks to the collaboration with samexa we manufacture our bricks ah not using concrete at all. We use locally source soil and this comes from the escavation of the foundation. We use a polymer that ah is ah a. Proprietary technology of samex. Ah and that we have exclusive ah utilization of that polymer for our energy storage application. Ah so this has created also a form of protection of our technology that we can implement and develop worldwwhile and a thanks to that polymer and a. 1 specific manufacturing process that is essentially a large pressing Machine. We are able to create these large bricks. Ah, it's like you know, ah, um, a big toy that a kids can play with ah part the fact that this really big. You know, whatever we are. Manufacturing and these the size of these equipment. Ah so ah, this was the initial step ah to enable the manufacturing of what we call eco bricks ah with the a resistance ah a a mechanical ah ah features that is enough. For what we need ah because we don't need a very strong. Ah, for example, concrete. Ah so it was a combination ah of ah, ah, reducing the cost. Ah, ah, targeting the right performance from the mechanical point of view and making sure that from the environmental point of view. We can ah massively deploy this technology so that was the first step. The second step was to ah understand which other need ah utilities they had and working closely with Utility. We discover 2 very interesting things. So a problem of the past that we can address.
| 38:46.16 | Marco Terruzzin | And the problem that has emerged just recently with the with the wind farms. So the first problem ah is represented by the large volume of a coal combustion residuals that has been stacked for many years in ponds nearby coal power plant. That is a big problem. It's an environmental problem because these residuals they have a percentage of a heavy metals that kind of percolate into the underground water so that is an environmental problem and environmental liability for the utilities and. And a significant threat for the local population. So we have develop developed a relationship and ah and a specific procedure to incorporate a large volume of these material into our ecobrics and so we have been able to provide an additional service and solution. Ah to our customer. Not only providing them. Ah an excellent and economically attractive ah energy storage solution. Ah, but also a solution for an environmental problem that I would have costed ah billions of dollars to be remediated and so we take that material. We mix it up with a locally sourced soil. With the polymer and we create Bricks. Ah that essentially are not creating any percolational or ah leakage based on you know, specific procedure and testing by environmental protection agency in different parts of the world. The other element that I think is pretty cool is the fact that. Now the new industry the wind the industry. So the problem of today and the future there has been the installation in the last fifteen 20 years of many new wind farm and the blades of this wind farm has not been designed to be a recycle. You know. You know you realize problem. Ah along the way so currently in europe. Ah, it's not anymore allowed to dump windblades into landfill and this created significant stress for companies like ah our customer renewable energy developer. Initially, they thought that that was completely an environmental ah ah asset like the windblades ah completely ah without any liability and they had that problem and so we sign a strategic partnership with 1 of the largest ipp worldwhile in eld green power and. Very proud of this initiative because we have been able to provide a clear solution ah to the decommissioning and recycling of that material extracting glass fibers from these wind blades and using these glass fiber in the manufacturing of our mobile masses. Ah.
| 41:38.26 | Marco Terruzzin | So you know these ecobrics ah represent the solution not only to be economically attractive but also to solve environmental problem that otherwise would have created ah economic stress on the customers and ah environmental liability if not addressed.
| 41:54.56 | chrissass | That that is just like great I love the passion that's coming through as you describe your company and what you guys do I just feel passion in everything you're saying that. That's great I'm enjoying the the recycling element that you know I was. I was wondering because when luke and I were talking pre-show I'm like well if they use cement cement adds greenhouse gases and things like that I was really glad to hear that you're not contributing to the problem that you're actually looking at solving problems which leads me to the software. So how do you interact with your customers. So if you're balancing a grid or doing things like that. Do you have I mean. Ah, think you're in California which tend to make me think you're at the software end of the things these days where you may be sitting what kind of software did you have to develop to make this all work.
| 42:37.30 | Marco Terruzzin | Yeah, thank you for the question because I I think that if we do not talk about software. We do not provide the big picture the complete picture of this technology so a energy volt ah is as too. Ah, the 2 important center 1 is in Switzerland. And that is really our development center that I help us to bring to commercial operation. The first unit. Ah that I was commissioned ah in the middle of 2020. It was a challenging time because all of us remember you know that 2020 was the time when a coffee day. Strike very badly in particular in europe but we have been able to finalize that project and demonstrate the performance of the u thanks to our partner thanks to our investors and also thanks a lot to the passion. All the people that a join energy volt and that they are joining now that we are accelerating with the deployments. Ah. With a new project across the globe australia europe north america south africa and um, now coming back to your question or it's essential for a technology not only to work ah from let's say a mecha electrochanical point of view that that is as say a. A necessary condition ah to be attractive ah and to be deployed. Ah okay and data has to that has to come with attractive economics because again utilities they are buying things. Ah, only if they they are buying technologies and solution only they represent ah a best fit. And the leastas cost so that is essential at the same time. Ah, we are in a world where internet of things communication ah dispatching of fulfilling specific use cases required by utilities and independent power producers. Ah, it's essential. So that was the second part of it really you know the the other side of the coin of our of our valuey proposition that is essential a complementary to provide ah a fully dispatchable asset. Ah so you know we have developed software not only to communicate properly with a grid. Not only to enable our customer to make money out of our asset and making sure that they know when they have to charge when they have to discharge when they have to dispatch the the asset. Ah, but we have also developed software that really helps ah to minimize operation and maintenance cost. Ah. With a high computing power to maximize the efficiency of the process of lifting and lowering. So there is a lot of computing power to make sure that ah the efficiency is as high as possible. We use also computer computer vision software.
| 45:27.19 | Marco Terruzzin | And predictive analytics to make sure that ah you know the movement of these mobile masses is perfectly accurateated and so this combination ah of ah, a very intuitive technology of ah solutions that are available on the market we are talking about a motor generator. Um, ah, inverter and in general components that I can be bought directly from a large company like the G or the word the ah the seamens of the world. The the combination of this technology a proprietary. Ah, ah. Design ah to combine and integrate all these components and the software that is able to dispatch ah the entire system in an efficient way has been really something unique that a positional energy vol ah not only as a significant supplier of technology basic technology. But also an enabler to help a customer to dispatch this asset. Ah independently and also in orchestration or with the other asset. Ah that ah those customer the utilities they own ah in a way that they can optimize their entire portfolio. Of a generation and storage asset.
| 46:43.31 | Johan | So in in order to to but to look at deployment around this you you mentioned that the wind parks and the solar parks as a fantastic combination then to the storage solutions that you're offering and then the software to kind of tie it all together. But there's also an investment part around this where we see. Subsidies in some countries on on renewable energy but also moving a lot now to the ppa especially a long-term ah ppa in terms of of building. Ah a new solar park or a new wind park is this something that you in terms of financing in terms of deployment of your of your technology. Is this something also that you're looking into maybe together with the wind park to see can we combine the the storage solutions as well as the wind park in ah in the long term ppa or how how is this time financially done from your side.
| 47:33.52 | Marco Terruzzin | Yeah, ah, great question. So when we talk about ah the financing part of our technology I would address to consideration. The first is the way that the company wanted that energy vault ah wanted to build up. Is on balance sheet to make sure that a we can work and a week can be a reliable partner for big companies like ah inelgine power like saudiia rammco like a edf because ah, it's. At this point we are talking about ah hundreds of millions of dollars of investment. Ah a pv farm ah of five hundred megawatts is easily 200 million plus and if you want to ah attach storage that is more or less the the ticket ah equivalent ticket for. For those investments so it was a necessity for energy vol to grow rapidly not only with the technology but also as a company and for this reason we made a decision to accelerate ah the path to become a public company. So this is 1 part of ah of the equation on the other side of the i. I would say the viability of what we do is directly related to the competitiveness ah of generational assets like solar and wind and now we know that ah solar by itself. Ah is the cheapest form ah of ah ah. Generation of electricity we' are talking about a something that is below twenty dollars per megavat hour so well below the average cost of generation ah of a coal power plant ah or a or a gas power plant. The problem. Is that ah you do not have obviously sun overnight so that ah ah, ah, cost has to be augmented ah in a certain way. You need to add an additional cost for the storage and we see that. Ah. It's happening regularularly that ah um, load service. Entities are asking not only for a renewable asset renewable generation asset but they are asking also for the dispatchability of this asset. Ah that it means that ah the developer has. To add a form of storage. So it's part ah of embedding incorporating in the cost of the ppa. The additional cost of the storage. So the necessity is there for a for a customer The decision is which storage.
| 50:19.70 | Marco Terruzzin | Will represent the lowest possible incremental cost to fulfill the job. So ah, how can I make solar dispatchable at the lowest possible cost and this is where our value proposition. Ah at scale and economic and with our economics becomes essential. To enable and augment. Ah, you know the entire number of technologies that are ah helping the transition. So its on 1 side again. Ah is our balance sheet on the other side ah is being best in class in helping our customer to minimize their total. Procurement cost.
| 50:58.86 | chrissass | So So understand the cost rolling in and you said something earlier that caught my attention you you mentioned projects just about every continent mostly or many many continents I think you mentioned projects On. So your go to market and I've seen tremendous amounts of money go In. You're going public to raise more money to hit the scale to hit this at economies of scale. How do you deploy these bi large scales. Do you have contractors that are partners to bring these out I mean these are huge projects right? These are big big construction sites that take you know a lot of engineering and and building I'd Imagine. So How how do you scale us out across those those size companies you you mentioned all at the same time in a hurry.
| 51:39.38 | Marco Terruzzin | A excellent question because ah, ah if you have a good technology if you have a good idea. A good plan. But ultimately there is no, there is no no effective, go to market and and a delivery strategy. All of that will be not effective clear. So this was really part of the design and the strategy around. Ah the characteristic of the technology so try to imagine in this way of energy volt technology and we recently launched the new product called ah edx. Ah. It's essentially a building wherever a building can be Built. We can build our technology so this creates ah a lot of positive synergies and implications because ah we can leverage an existing infrastructure existing supply chain. Ah. In the real estate ah industry and ah everywhere in every continent you have a large epc companies. They are very familiar with the construction ah of ah larger real estate infrastructure. So we have ah properly adjusted the relationship between ah what it is done. Locally. For example, we do not need a giga Factory. We don't have to spend the money to build a giga factory and also adjust the logistic to ship ah batteries or components from 1 part of the world ah to another continent. We take advantage of an existing supply chain existing partner epc partner in Australia in europe ah here in North america and the remaining part of the component they can be sourced locally because we are talking about a model generator that ah, for example. General electrics or siemens ah or abb they have a manufacturing location across the globe and they already have ah a very well-established logistic chain and logistic flow of ah of of operation so that was appropriately thought. Ah. To make sure that we are not running in any bottleneck we are not running into for example, spike ah of pricing raw material. We are insisting on a supply chain that is there is a hundred years that is there is essentially the larger real estate ah supply chain that ah we leverage in terms of skills and availability. Or multiple continents.
| 54:07.70 | chrissass | So it it sounded like from this conversation that you your big proponent you all renewables is entertaining to you but it sounds like the near term projects are more solar based than Windbas is that a takeaway from our conversation.
| 54:22.50 | Marco Terruzzin | They are they are both ah they are both because ultimately we are a kind of a agnostic in terms of that renewable energy for us is a form of ah an electronic in a certain way doesn't have a color. It has to be just stored and for this reason. Ah. Um, it it depends on. Ah, what is the customer need. However I have to say that. Ah, historically, you're right? Ah, until now solar ah has been ah, a much better fitat in terms of use case to be paired with the energy storage than wind. And and the reason is kind of straightforward that solar the the solar path is more predictable than a wind behavior in these terms. Ah, you may have ah um, sometimes 2 or 3 days of ah, unexpected. Ah. Low wind situation. So at that point. Ah the amounts of storage that you needed to create a dispatchable asset with wind. Ah, it's very it's big. So currently, you know is a matter of low end in Freit ah is all the industry is trying. To solve the problem with a lowest cost opportunity that is represented today by solar. However, it's just a matter of time with a cost reduction ah of storage technology the intrinsic cost reduction ah of renewable energy technologies. Storage in 1 form on another will be adapted ah by all of these generation assets because ultimately the intermittency nature of those assets ah is there and the requirement the need to make ah those assets dispatchable is essential again. You know to transition. Ah. To something that is ah ah able to provide electricity on demand.
| 56:22.50 | Johan | Which which I think sounds fantastic and I thought this was a really really interesting insight I know we're coming up to time but just my reflections. A little bit in terms of what I thought around this I think it's fascinating We had on the show before when we went underground now we go overground what I think is really really interesting in terms of the scale of the storage is that you're using if I understand it correctly the the existing technologies and and a lot of the existing ah Partners. There's already. On the market which means going back to my questions in the beginning. How do we scale on this 1 well is actually a new way of doing it but with an old technology which means that we have cut a lot of those parts which I thought was really really interesting and and and really you know, thankful for for getting that input because that was 1 of my biggest. Question and part introducing the show listening to you as well. I couldn't help myself of thinking of Isaac Newton on this side of my brain and my fellow danish friends of the Lego on the left hand side here with with the blocks coming up and down on Gravity. So I'm still visualizing the whole concept. But I thought it was really really interesting to to have you on on the show I thought this was you know, really really interesting and I wish I would see it in live 1 day because it will be really cool to see it So I probably have a thousand more questions. But I know we're running out of time. So Thank you very much for.
| 57:50.83 | chrissass | but but I am goingnna I'm I am going to ask a question I always have 1 more and and so the the technology sounds exciting. It's got so much promise. It's it's on the front edge here of where it's going you you get into funding to get the scale you need.
| 57:51.62 | Johan | For attending chris do you have the final question I know you have 1 more I'm gonna hand it over for the last 1 I know I'll hand over to you.
| 58:08.93 | chrissass | 5 years from now where are you.
| 58:11.78 | Marco Terruzzin | Or the the company. Um, thank you for the question because that was 1 of the fundamental reason why I joined personally energy evolve energy vault mission ah is to identify develop. And bring to the Market. Ah, the most sustainable and economically attractive energy storage solution ah to enable the transition. So energy volta is dedicated to the development of a portfolio of technology now we are not only and ah we are. We are very focused. On deploying the first technology gravity to make sure that we are accelerating the transition 5 years from now energy volt will be a significant player in a helping utilities. Not only with our fundamental technology but also with the softer platform ah that we are expanding every day. To facilitate the dispatching of all these assets. Ah, and ah we will do our best ah to introduce additional technology because ah energy vol is the energy storage company to further accelerate the transition. Ah and ah help the system ah to maintain. Sustainability standard safety standard and providing the lowest possible cost to enable very low cost of electricity and available for everybody.
| 59:42.52 | chrissass | That's great promise I'm I'm looking forward to it I hope you will let us check back with you in a year or so to see how you you progressed I'd love to hear this story as it develops. Thank you so much for being a guest on the show. I'm sure our audience enjoyed it as much as Johann and I did and I can see our producer in the corner there. He's smiling the whole time. He he's loving the the content as well. Marco. Thank you so much for sharing for our audience. Once again, you spend another hour listening to insider guide to energy.
| 59:56.53 | Johan | So.
| 01:00:03.71 | Marco Terruzzin | It's a pleasure All thank you for having me.
| 01:00:11.35 | chrissass | If you've enjoyed the content today enjoyed the show. Please continue to send comments in. We'd love to get your feedback share the episode with your friends and if you haven't subscribed yet, please don't forget to subscribe and check us out on the Youtube channel as well. Another way to see how the sausage is made and see us making these podcasts behind the scenes so we look forward to seeing you again next week thank you