169 - Entrepreneurial Journeys in the Energy Sector: Insights and Success Stories from Founders

Embark on an enlightening journey through the dynamic world of energy entrepreneurship in this latest episode of Insiders Guide to Energy! In it we dive deep into the personal and professional paths of three seasoned entrepreneurs who have successfully carved their niches within the complex energy sector. Hosted by Chris Sass, this episode offers a unique blend of insights, challenges, and triumphs encountered by those at the forefront of energy entrepreneurship. 

Our Guests 

- Chris Sass: With a rich background in technology and entrepreneurship, Chris Sass has played a pivotal role in shaping innovative energy solutions. His expertise in navigating the startup ecosystem and passion for fostering sustainable energy practices have positioned him as a leading voice in the industry. 

- Jeff McAulay: Co-founder of Energetic Insurance, Jeff McAulay brings a unique perspective on risk management and financing in the clean energy sector. His work focuses on making renewable energy projects more accessible and financially viable through innovative insurance products. 

- Niall Riddell: As the mind behind Paua, Niall Riddell has significantly contributed to the electric vehicle (EV) charging infrastructure. His efforts to simplify EV charging access and improve user experience reflect his commitment to accelerating the transition to sustainable transportation. 

Topics Covered: 

1. The Entrepreneurial Leap: Discover the catalysts that compelled Chris Sass, Jeff McAulay, and Niall Riddell to transition from traditional roles into the uncertain yet rewarding realm of entrepreneurship. Learn about the pivotal moments and the compelling desire to make a significant impact that led them to embark on their entrepreneurial journeys within the energy sector. 

2. Overcoming Early Challenges: Gain an insider's view of the initial hurdles faced by our speakers as they navigated through the complexities of the energy industry. From securing funding to understanding market needs and the importance of timing, this segment offers candid reflections on the obstacles they encountered and the strategies they employed to overcome them. 

3. Driving Innovation in Energy: This topic explores the innovative solutions and business models our entrepreneurs developed to address critical challenges in the energy sector. Understand how they leveraged technology, strategic partnerships, and creative financing to bring their visions to life and drive sustainable change in the energy landscape. 

4. Entrepreneurial Insights and Advice: Benefit from the wealth of experience shared by our speakers as they offer actionable advice for aspiring energy entrepreneurs. This segment covers the essential skills and mindset needed to succeed, the importance of resilience, and how to navigate the ups and downs of the entrepreneurial journey. 

Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a professional in the energy sector, or simply someone passionate about innovation and sustainability, this episode offers invaluable insights into the realities of building a business in the complex world of energy. Our speakers' stories of perseverance, creativity, and the drive to make a difference are sure to inspire and motivate you to explore the opportunities within the energy industry. 

Transcript

05:59.11 

Niall Riddell _Paua_ 

So It's my view that if we're going to go through a serious energy transition. We need startups to drive that. And importantly, the founders sat behind them because realistically you have huge amounts of capital being deployed by large energy companies. But you need the innovative ideas to be driven by someone who has the energy to push it through to fruition. 

06:22.16 

Jeff McAulay 

Neil I completely agree and I'm going to say even more broadly than just startups. We need entrepreneurship and that's within multiple institutions multiple organizations, not just startups and for the startups that do exist we really need to rethink how those are funded. Because we need patient capital. We need different business models in order to address the hard tech and financing challenges that exist in the energy transition. So Chris I'm really excited today that you turned around the microphone because of course as podcast hosts. We're all sitting here saying this is fun. 

06:58.53 

Jeff McAulay 

But what about me? what about my journey. Why don't I get so I'm I'm thrilled because I actually Neil Chris I don't get to hear about your journeys because you're the hosts and I really want to learn more about your journeys and inspirational stories and your scars. From the entrepreneurial journey. So Chris I'm really glad that you ah, put forward this agenda today and I'm excited to talk more about our our shared entrepreneurial journeys here. 

07:23.80 

chrissass 

I am super excited to have this episode. We're all going to start out by at least giving a little background or audience may not know that all the hosts on this line today are entrepreneurs and founders. We've all founded companies different segments but all driving in the energy industry. So what I suggest we do is let's just go around the room and give just a real brief what it is we founded and a little background on ourselves Neil why don't you kick off about your company and what it is you did or do. 

07:50.15 

Niall Riddell _Paua_ 

Sure very happy to or what it is I do yeah quite right? Um, so about um, fifteen years ago I entered the energy industry 2004 um, it was around about the time in the Uk when the decision was just being made that the nuclear industry was happening. So I entered the nuclear and waste management industry with a big german a big german company called RWE then I went across into British Energy Operated nuclear power stations. They got bought by EDF energy and it was during that journey that I spent 10 years realizing I'm not very good at climbing the career ladder. So I ended up inside the innovation team of that company which in many ways was a place where a lot of misfits and those who were perhaps on their way out of the business ended up so ended up running the electric vehicle team and this was about 2016-2017 and you could see this trend was just starting to happen. And I launched a proposition with my team at the time and we wanted to enable people to access and use public electric vehicle charging and what we needed was someone with a big tech play and a big aggregated network play. Um, and we couldn't find it. And that idea stuck with me and after um about eighteen months or 2 years of pushing that idea around in my head I finally plucked up the courage to jump ship and start a small business which today is called Paua. We’re the Uk's largest network of aggregated charge points and we support businesses. 

09:10.49 

Niall Riddell _Paua_ 

With finding and using public electric vehicle charging and both doing public charging and now more recently home charging as we basically seek to solve problems for businesses with vehicles as they go out on the road and transition to electric vehicles. 

09:23.31 

chrissass 

Awesome! All right? Jeff I think it makes sense for you to go next then I'll go last. 

09:28.68 

Jeff McAulay 

Thank you, You know I'm going to echo a lot of the the point so I can keep this brief but certainly the first one is I was not a great employee. Not great at climbing the corporate ladder and so that made the decision to jump to a startup easier but like you. Found myself in a larger organization with a problem that was very nuanced very esoteric but wasn't being solved and ah felt compelled to start a company to solve it. I'm also going to take some liberties here because I've actually started 3 companies somewhat in parallel. A consulting company, a venture-backed fintech and a nonprofit. So I'm going to talk about each one of those but the mission for all of these are just different ways of addressing the big problem which is we need more renewable, clean infrastructure out in the world and how do we get there. And there's multiple lenses, multiple ways to look at that my current day job is at Energetic Capital where we're rewriting the rules on perception of risk in project finance. 

10:35.44 

chrissass 

All right? Well I guess that leaves me last um, so I come from it a little bit different than the 2 of you I come from the tech segment I started a career starting tech companies I early on was fortunate enough to get involved and the internet was growing and then we went into these other tech companies as a part of companies that did exits through IPOs or companies that did sale. Mergers and what I learned along the way is I love that startup culture I love where the company is when it's early that everybody pulling together in the feel of what you can get done when you're a small company and I love technology so along the way. Um. A, consultant that ran a PWC energy practice in Europe gave me a shout a few years back and said hey you know I've got this idea of a startup in the energy tech space would you want to come help me out with it. Um, after I got done yawning and and didn't think it was going to be that exciting I took a week's vacation flew over to Europe. And started interviewing companies like RWE where you came from Neil and other companies and said hey if we solved this problem in OTC energy trading would that help you guys and what I realized is there was a need in the market and so it was just technology. It was a way to do it I went over. Helped this PWC guy out because he could understand the business problem but he had never done startups couldn't raise capital and things like that he needed some experience to come do that so I came in and built the commercial side of the business raised our funding and did that at the same time I became really passionate about energy started the insider's guide to energy. 

11:55.46 

chrissass 

Just like Jeff said kind of is a second company here and now we've got IGTE as well. So I've recently exited the day job from the first four years of that company and was able to get exit out and now I'm helping some other small companies get started and trying to figure out what the next startup play is because. Once you're an entrepreneur and that serial entrepreneur is really hard to not get excited about the next big play that you're going to go do and that's where I am right now. 

12:17.61 

Niall Riddell _Paua_ 

So so I feel like I'm letting the side down with only one startup here and but I feel the the passion enthusiasm that comes through from having done it once and knowing that you you're facing failure but you've overcome that fear of failure. Um. And as a consequence the ability to then take the leap a second the third or fourth time is huge because after 15 years of a regular paycheck coming into bank account. You suddenly go hang on is setting up a business really such a smart idea and there is a long list of reasons why you wouldn't do it. Now personally I found the cofounder element of building my own business. Absolutely crucial I knew as soon as I found the right cofounder there was something I could do I'm quite curious about you guys. Did you both I mean Chris you mentioned your colleague at pwc is that is a cofounder something. You've always had. 

13:08.19 

chrissass 

So typically I've been part of a team and more on the commercial and engineering and architecture side. So I came a little bit later most of my early companies and just got the the bite of what I wanted to do as it got more seasoned in my career and could do things on my own. 

13:09.86 

Niall Riddell _Paua_ 

And Jeff did you always start solo or is solo the way to go. 

13:27.13 

chrissass 

Um I did it I think that the cofounders a double-edged sword. Um I I didn't totally part of the last company I learned that just because I liked someone and that they had some skills that they may not have the competence and you get to a certain point where you're bored and your advisors are telling you 1 thing and and it can get really difficult. So I think you have to be very careful with your cofounder if it's just ah, a couple I think when you get to a company and have a team It's very different because your your swimmling is carved out but in those early days mean you live and breathe this is your baby and you really need to be on board with your cofounder and trust your cofounder because at some point. You're probably going to have slightly different visions of what your company to be going to be and that needs to get resolved somehow because your shareholders are going to want you to resolve that because they've got a lot of money so riding on your decision. But Jeff I mean how how did your cofounder experience. Go. 

14:16.64 

Jeff McAulay 

Yeah I would just say it's it I found it essential and have talked to a lot of friends I think the the solo founder journey is really difficult because you really need somebody to work through problems with and I'm not saying. That it's It's always,, you're always going to agree I think it's important that you disagree actually and have real conflict but work through that in a respectful and collaborative way and that's what's been most inspiring to me is having founders where I had a longstanding. Friendship and foundation of respect and trust and that is just super super valuable as you're going through the journey. But. 

14:58.20 

chrissass 

All right? Well I think we got a little bit about the the founders. What are some of the early challenges we all had you know what are some of the things you had early on so so Neil you left a day job to go start a company. So let's start with you because that that's got to be the biggest culture shock. 

15:13.28 

Niall Riddell _Paua_ 

Yeah, and I've kind of mentioned a huge step in that milestone for me was having the right cofounder. Um I mean one of the things that people often tell you is you know you got to get the timing rights while realistically the time is never right? I um I've got I had two kids when I started my business I've got three now. Um, you know so realistically childbirth and you know life events happen as you go on that journey. Um, so the earliest thing for me was we actually founded our business in the middle of covid. Um, so you know I'd been sent home from work from my large corporate office into my spare bedroom. And suddenly realized that this kind of legitimized the whole experience of running a business out of um, you know without an office completely remote. Um, and I happened to know my cofounder quite well at that time. So we variously worked through the problems. Um and we had to employ someone I had to employ someone who we couldn't interview. Beyond you know a Zoom call and quite quickly. We'd employed. Our first employee we'd set up an office. We'd you know started to raise our first capital we put together our first propositions without ever having an office and having spent 15 years in an office with ah a jacket hung over the back of my chair to show that was my chair. This was ah a crazy strange experience. One of the first challenges we had was how do you run a remote business and quite quickly. You know what followers all of the what software stack to put together. You know what legal contracts to put in place and all of the the pains of administration of a small business that. 

16:27.20 

chrissass 

Or. 

16:42.25 

Niall Riddell _Paua_ 

Perhaps the original founder's dream didn't include you know your original dream is the first customer. The first revenue the first story and realistically a lot of it is admin and hard work and that for me was one of the biggest challenges to overcome was how do you run a remote business and how do you get access to support and tools in that very very early stage and realistically you've got. Nothing more than maybe a powerpoint deck to show for what you're doing. 

17:04.50 

chrissass 

About you. Jeff. 

17:08.23 

Jeff McAulay 

So gosh early found I mean it's it's hard. Um, we were started and I would just maybe start by saying every journey is different and even if we were founding the same exact company today. It would be completely different and so these are maybe experiences but not recommendations. I'm thinking you know reflecting I think we've all had the benefit of having very supportive households which is important. It's not just cofounders. It's the people you have around you in your in your home in your personal network to get you through those tough journeys and I found a um foundation of Goodwill. And people you can call on whether they're formal advisors or friends ah to to just guide you or to make intros or to just be sounding. Boards is really really crucial in the early days because you never know and and when people would ask me Jeff how's it going I would say you know it's going. Great. But I'll ah I'll tell you in six months and it's been seven years of that and I'm amazed on the 1 hand of how far we've gotten and then simultaneously there's you know, bigger and and bigger hurdles and targets ahead of us. And will we make it I don't know but we're going to keep trying and if the the past is any ah, any representation I think we've got a really good shot. 

18:21.83 

Niall Riddell _Paua_ 

And so that that exact point is what someone out of a small mentor group said to me which is we're going to keep going and we're going to make it and you will find a way. You will always try and find a way to make it happen and 100% I echo that idea that finding a group of people who have sufficient experience not just to say. Don't worry, you're great. You're going to make it happen because there's a lot of people out there who will just believe in you without knowing the detail but people who really understand the minutiae going through this challenge is such an important set in giving you confidence to move forward I'm sure you saw the same thing Chris. 

18:55.81 

chrissass 

Yeah I think so I think the thing that resonates with me with Jeff said and what my family can attest to is when you work for a startup or a young young company. It 24 hours can be manically different. I mean you know you can win 1 deal in 24 hours or you have a prospect that looks like it's going to be amazing or you're going to get you know x million dollars in funding tomorrow and it's great and then you find out that there's a problem in your source code or you find out. There's something else the next day and the world's going to come to an end. Um I think having done so many companies along the way. Yeah, there were there were. Plenty of moments where I sat down my co-founder and we basically spent more time together than my family and I did for the last for four years we were in the same room we could finish each other's sentences. We you know we knew how the other would respond even if we didn't agree. We could answer for each other. Um, but what ended up happening is there'd be a few times where it just looked like the world was coming to end. You know we need funding and we're running down to you know a week two weeks worth of cash in the bank and I'm like don't worry about it. We'll figure it out. We always do um and as and you know. 2 years from now we're going to be laughing about how we got through this or 3 years from now or some point because in my experience the the world's always coming to an end that men in black where were the original movie where you know where he kind of looks around and he realized the world's about to come to end and and Tommy Lee looks back and goes. It's always about to come to the end that's a startup There's always high risk. 

20:22.25 

chrissass 

But if you do what what? I've heard on this call already which is put your head down it and fight through it and figure out a way through it. You generally will not all the time but my experience been able to look back in the future and go back. Wow you know we made it through that I can't believe we got through that and and it looked like the world was going to end so a lot of times. It's perspective. And then the second thing is like you said is having people on the outside that trust you and believe in you and have faith in what you're doing even if they don't totally understand your idea because a lot of the investors I got very early. You know the friends families and fools as we like to say that gave me money. Um. Invested in me the the first few rounds of seed until we got up to real money. Those were people investing in both my cofounder and myself they were they they thought the idea was okay and had possible legs. But if you ask any of them. They didn't invest in the company at that time they invested in the people. And that's what they're investing in so you you got to fight through this stuff so all right? So we've got through kind of early learnings where are what were some of the hurdles that we had to overcome I mean so we all had hurdles. There had to be unique hurdles. So we're talking specifically the energy industry. There's 3 of us here that have companies in that space. Um, Jeff what were some of the initial hurdles you had to do with energetic. 

21:34.48 

Jeff McAulay 

Gosh this is a story of if we had actually known how hard it was. We probably wouldn't have tried so we're coming in my cofounder and I as outsiders to the insurance industry saying. We've got a novel way of underwriting risk. We built our own models. We got our own datasets and we're coming in to basically some of the largest insurance companies in the world trying to convince them that they should put their balance sheet behind our model. And that took 2 years it took 2 years of walking around learning the language flying to London this was thankfully pre-covid um, and and basically not giving up. We were able to do that actually because of a grant from the department of energy. And the sunshot initiative without that nondillutive financing I don't think we ever would have gotten there but a lot of these insurers are are financial institutions. Really they they don't believe you for the first six months of your existence and after you've been around long enough and you haven't gone away and you haven't given up. It's kind of like okay well now I can listen to what you're saying because I can tell you actually care about this and so really through it through a process of about 2 years just to even exist to even sell an insurance product. That's what we had to get through and gosh that was that's I don't think we've done anything harder since then. 

23:05.22 

chrissass 

So so Jeff you did is fortunately we had a couple really good advisors on my company and 1 of our largest early investors was very patient and yeah, we'd come in and say you know six months from now we're in a kill of the market. You know we're going to have you know our first blah blah blah contractor this or that and then. Twelve months from now when we're actually doing that contract. They'd come back and go yeah, that's kind of what I budgeted I kind of figured that you know so so having some experienced investors but I think to be a founder. You need to be overly optimistic and either have your head in the sand and not understand the risks you're against. Or just not care and think you can fight through that. So I think that's a commonality that I would share I don't know about you Neil but I think that. 

23:48.13 

Niall Riddell _Paua_ 

Yeah there's um, there's a lot in there that I'm resonating with I think one of the things that I spend 15 years inside energy companies. Um I always used to say they did really big things really slowly and as a consequence they need time. To to process internally through multiple layers of decision makers. What? what? the outcome is and therefore for us we um, we aggregate different chargepoint networks and some of those chargepoint networks are operated by huge oil giants and huge energy companies and latterly they're always the last ones to join. Because it's the smaller more nimble ones who've been able to work with first and the same thing applies to the businesses who we've been able to sell services to it's been the smaller growth enterprises who we've been able to tackle and work with First. Um and therefore it's been the the more laggard large enterprises that come more slowly. I think one of the things with entering the energy sector is you've got to find those early movers who are going to create that opportunity to get a real proof of concept an Mvp into the world because unfortunately ah, many of the big projects out there require you to be very credible, very experienced very well-backed. Um, hundreds of Iso statements and certifications and approvals and you know just entering the the supply chain process alone is a little bit of a victory. Um, so quite quickly you can see that it's really off-putting to work in the energy world and with that comes I think an expectation from investors. 

25:15.56 

Niall Riddell _Paua_ 

As to how quickly businesses can move because all of a sudden if you're entering the world where you're having to do deals with some of the largest energy companies in the world. It just doesn't happen as quickly. Um, so having you know experienced Investors. You've had either experience in the clean tech transition or in energy investment previously. Becomes a hugely crucial part of helping understand that maybe things don't happen on that you know nice hockey shit a hockey hockey stick shaped curve as quickly as everyone would like and unfortunately things just take time. 

25:43.86 

chrissass 

So how does that drive the innovation then and in our experience across the board right? because you know investors aren't always patient. They they want to return and and you know we're competing with capital that go into other other investments as well. So how's that innovation in Jeff in your opinion. You know how? how is this. Driving innovation. 

26:03.44 

Jeff McAulay 

So I think this goes back to my first point which is that it might not be the right kind of capital and it's very important at the beginning I think a lot of us as entrepreneurs get locked into the. Oh. There's a standard model of building a startup it is I have a proprietary technology that I've licensed and patented and I go out and I raise vc dollars and I get dilution all and stuff but given the pace of what we've all been describing venture capital financing may not be the right fit for these types of businesses and. I think there's at least 3 flavors to consider government which I mention venture of course, but third is customer dollars and customer dollars are really important the first business that I was involved in and and. I was somewhat ah a cofounder but also like you said Chris was tapped by somebody else which is another way of of becoming a cofounder was a consulting business and if you look at our experiences I think we're all b two b and we all launched based on an experience that was a very esoteric opportunity that we. Only discovered by being us or somebody else being inside a much larger corporation that couldn't innovate so we actually built adl ventures to go find those opportunities because if you're a startup and you're trying to pitch utility. It takes forever if you go in as a consultant. 

27:26.58 

Jeff McAulay 

It's a very different experience and you are working in providing value to those large companies by helping them understand what problems they have. But then you're at the front row seat to be involved in an entity that is providing that solution whether it's a spinout a spin-in a licensing deal a pilot. And so what adl has focused on is that interface and improving the corporate startup interface but going in asking questions before you make a pitch and that's I would say is actually the best way to start a company if you're not already in 1 of those large firms to spin out. You go in as a consultant and provide the inverse pitch don't pitch whatever you think the answer is ask the question. This is jeopardy style go in and get paid to ask the question for which that startup is the answer and you learn along the way. That maybe you had it right? Maybe you had it wrong, but you're deepening that relationship and that does not require venture dollars to get started. Okay. 

28:23.20 

chrissass 

Yeah I mean that's exactly what we did with with fidetis we we started out with Germany's largest energy company and when I told you I took a week off I sat with them and said hey you know what is it? you need built. What do we build and we built a proof of concept. You know, very quickly brought the proof of concept. But even so much so that we intentionally left our ui almost like blank and we said look we're going to have you build it and 1 of our initial differentiators is our ui was built by our customers. So our first 10 users basically designed our ui with our design team and of course everyone in the industry's like well we've never had 1 that. Understood us because we built what they asked us to build as opposed to just going off and building something in a vacuum. Um, the second thing that we did I thought that was pretty powerful so in having done this for over twenty years I don't believe if people don't have skin in the game. They're vested in things so we didn't give away any of our initial technology. We charged for all our initial customers to be on trial systems. So our first revenue was six months before we had product I think the first quarter million dollars was just based on going to a lab and and the reason we did that one is it obviously helped with our investors to see that there was there was some tolerance in the market. But the second thing is if people don't have skin in the game. They don't give you time. So if you need someone to get you an ip address or to work in the lab if they've made an investment. They're interested in in being involved with your your project. So for me, it was building like you said what they wanted as opposed to doing it. 

29:50.83 

chrissass 

Having to mince energy companies at least we started in Europe across Europe that they wanted to build a product as opposed to a left-handed monkey wrench that was a bit more of a challenge because every energy company in the world. Whether I'm in Houston or whether I'm in London or I'm in Switzerland they all have their own special needs. And that's a bit of a challenge to make sure you stay on focus and be productized that was the hard thing for our company because my cofounder wanted to build everything in the world because he had never started a company before and saying no no, no, we need good enough to ship and it needs to be just these few things on the truck today because that's what we can ship Neil. 

30:22.64 

Niall Riddell _Paua_ 

Yeah, um I kind of came at this from the different angle I mean I've heard you both talk about how you've gone into the businesses understood the expression of what it was they were facing and then you know taken that way and turned it into a product I was inside the business when all of this started and um, like I described it kind of ended up in the innovation function and. Innovation functions inside large energy companies are funny places because most times when you look at the the rain of an incoming ceo they will take the first couple of years to invest quite heavily in r and d inside of the innovation ecosystem. And then slowly over that 7 to 9 year tenure of that Ceo they will shut it down. Harvest the benefits demonstrate to their shareholders. What a great job. They've done and then retire on a lovely pension. So as a consequence most innovation teams inside energy companies have a lifetime of something like 7 to nine years. Um, so I wasn't surprised that the innovation team I was part of is now shut down I wouldn't be surprised to see if another 1 opens up in the next couple of years. But what it means is that um energy companies themselves are keen on innovation but don't necessarily know how to handle it what to do with it. So I mean this all goes back to the well-written. Well-studied innovator's dilemma but ultimately big corporates. Don't always know what they want so there's a dynamic in here which is quite interesting around. Um, listening to the customer and making sure that you're building for what the customer needs but also recognizing the customer is probably not the expert in the very niche. 

31:48.82 

Niall Riddell _Paua_ 

Ah, specific arena that you're trying to operate in so you've got to bring a certain element of that's great but types and scenario to customers which is which is a challenge when you're dealing with huge behemoth organizations who have their own opinion on how the world works. 

32:02.70 

chrissass 

So I guess if you're listening to this and you were thinking of either leaving your energy company to do a startup or you wanted to get into it What what attributes or skills do do we think Collectively are are there. 

32:23.87 

chrissass 

Go ahead. 

32:23.87 

Niall Riddell _Paua_ 

This this is a great one isn't it. Um I think fundamentally um the single hardest thing to deal with if you're inside a large energy company. You're thinking about leaving to go and start a business is the risk your absolute to risk. Um. The the entire setup inside large corporates is designed to keep good ideas inside not to let them get out to keep you confident and comfortable in moving up through tears and rungs of an organization. Um, and realistically it's quite hard. To find the opportunity to to get out that organization and then therefore also not just to leave but to to have the the gumption to jump into building your own business. So you've got to have some sort of ah intrinsic motivation that is perhaps bigger than the pure. Um ambition of being able to. Build a business and personally for me there are a couple of things. Um, one of them is my career began in the world of climate change and therefore I always knew I wanted to build something that lived and breathed in the world of clean tech. Um, but more more importantly, there's this kind of crazy concept of what's the story. You're going to tell on your deathbed. Um, and for me my story of working inside an energy company for my entire career was going to be a bit dull. Um, and therefore I had spoken to a number of other entrepreneurs before making this leap. In fact, I've been thinking about it for about 10 years um but I knew that I wanted the stories they had the story of the moment when there is only one week's worth of cash left in the bank. 

33:54.99 

Niall Riddell _Paua_ 

The story of the time that something was going so well and went terribly wrong I wanted all of those stories and therefore there was a little bit of me which was a no regrets decision which was I'm not climbing the ladder at any Rocket ship pace I'm I'm not the best employee in this ecosystem. But I perhaps have the capability and credibility to do this. So I'm going to give it a shot. Um, and if it goes terribly wrong. What's the worst that happens I can at least say I tried got it horribly wrong and then go back to the big energy company and be very comfortable. Um, having got all the know the scars and the wounds from that Journey. So I kind of built my own little business case which was partially built. In my head but also as you've both mentioned had to be built with my external stakeholders. My wife my family as Well. Um, and we've got some trigger points at which point you go Actually you know what this is the end. We're not going forward but not moving beyond this but we haven't hit any of them yet going? Well you know it's It's been a very positive story but it's. Had its low periods and managing those low periods and understanding that you're going to have them is's the world's craziest rollercoaster but the lows are super low and the highs are super high. You've just got to manage that and be able to be resilient enough to work through that. 

35:10.89 

Jeff McAulay 

Yeah I completely. Ah agree I think the first thing I want to if somebody's thinking about starting a company The first thing I want topart is that there is not some magical credential out there where oh if I just do this then I'll be ready and you can always invent 1 like oh well I need to work at this company I need ah I need this degree or I need this experience or this thing it's not true. Ah you can. You can be ready with what you have you'll learn what you need along the way or you're asked for help so that's the first one. The second one is that it timing matters. So it's. Yes, your personal situation but it's more about the markets. What is the reason why now is the right time for this business and you can get by on everything else being mediocre. But if you hit the timing right? and I think a lot of the most successful businesses. Today that you can find are people about being at the right time and then everything else can ah can attract. Um, as far as the the skills I I really think that's pretty broad. Ah the one I would just say is it's got to be this balance of ambition and humility. You have to have enough motivation to try and do something big but enough humility to ask for help along the way and it's really really hard. The people I see fail are the ones that get this mixed up. They're ambitious when they should be humble and they're humble when they should be ambitious and that's one of the hardest things to balance. 

36:34.77 

Jeff McAulay 

Ah, in in the entrepreneurial journey and then the last thing is it's just ultimate. It's got to be something that you're fired up about because of the the highs and especially the lows that Neil is talking about and just the drudgery and the boring work and and doing the doing the books on a Sunday afternoon because somebody's got to do it right? and. If you're just not fired up about the whole thing. You're not going to make it through the the slog that it is sometimes um, but if you have that passion and tenacity. You can get through just about everything. 

37:07.94 

chrissass 

so so I agree with a lot of what both you said and have some different opinions. So unlike Neil um I don't think you should have a plan b and and have that safety net I think you dive in you go fail and you try again? Um I think that there's an entrepreneurial spirit. You can't be afraid of failing. And in fact, you know my last startup we we tried things and I remember we built 1 product line we thought was going to make us really wealthy and of course we didn't ship it right? It wasn't that great. It was only exciting to us when we took it to market. Um, and we quickly just pivoted and did something different so you need to be able to pivot and be flexible. Your identity can't be tied up too much. Very few startups. The last one was the only one that I would say that we didn't totally pivot from what we started to build from the very day we opened the company thought hey we're going to be this. We're going to be the energy industriess next bla. But when when you find out the market and you adjust and you listen to your customers and you change there's going to be a pivot so you you can't get too hung up exactly on the details. The second thing I really love is the people in the culture. The reason I like doing it and and I match my career to a couple friends of mine that had long careers in large companies and stayed their entire career. So economically we did about the same we I had more ups and downs. They were like the slow rabbit you know the rabbit and the hare kind of thing and the tortoise and they did well. In the end but we had different excitement levels so you have to have the tolerance to be able to go risk everything and then start again and it may fail and not go the way you want but you need to do that and the last thing I think you need to do is know when to cut the cord and and try something different. 

38:38.98 

chrissass 

Because in a startup if you're truly optimistic There's always that one deal that's going to make it better and you need to know when it's time to cut bait because there's a time where you're chasing bad ideas and this is where the advice and listening to your colleagues and having trusted people. Um, the 1 thing I highly recommend is getting advisors. You trust. Yeah, the the biggest rookie mistake I've seen and I saw it even my last company because I co-founded with someone that wasn't an experienced startup guy is trying to be greedy and keep too much and not trusting a board and putting a viable board in place that you actually listen to and Trust. Because they've done it and that's where when you get to equity and things like that and Jeff the model may be different with government and other funding but 1 of the things equity can do even though you got to be really careful because their vested interests is in their pocket but not necessarily in your personal well-being but they know how to run a business and stuff like that and they give you a lot of insight and things to look at and experience. So those are the things I look at that are there. Um, as we bring this together I think we should you know probably close pretty soon because you're coming up on time. Any final thoughts around the horn now. Um I think Neil you open so Jeff why don't you go first in the final thoughts here. 

39:44.40 

Jeff McAulay 

So gosh I do think actually that having a fallback is is helpful I want to give some credit here to just the state of Massachusetts like the fact that there was mass mass health and that I could not have a job and start a company and know that I had health insurance. Or you know, as least as a fallback or there's unemployment insurance I do think that these kind of whether it's a you know savings built up or ah or a spouse or public programs having those conceptually as not that you necessarily need them but that they're there as fallbacks does allow risk taking. To occur and I think that's super important. 1 thing that I'll just reflect on. My wife is ah is a doctor and so no matter what I did she was always working more hours than I was no matter what I did how bad I thought my day was. The the implic she never said this of course but it's implicit. Oh well did anybody die on your shift right? No did anybody threaten to sue you today. Did you have to like talk to a family member who had just experienced the most traumatic event of that. No. Okay, and then you know similarly had another friend who had served in the military. And I asked him why he was so cool common collect and he said Jeff you know what? Ah, nobody's trying to kill me today right? Nobody's shooting at me. So I think it puts it in perspective. These are hard things but we will survive. 

41:11.30 

Jeff McAulay 

There are harder things that we ourselves and our friends and other people our peers are capable of and do every day and so that should give us a sense of ultimate possibility and it's that drive optimism the tenacity and and yes you can get down. You can feel depressed and you should feel depressed. If You never feel disappointed then you never make it better and if you never feel optimistic then you never try and so it's all about what I call this productive cycle of the highs and the lows and using each one of those to build momentum through the next cycle. 

41:46.33 

chrissass 

All right now I'm gonna let you have the final word because we're coming up long on time so you got the final word today. 

41:54.27 

Niall Riddell _Paua_ 

I'm um, one of the things that I have um and maybe this is the humility point that Jeff is talking to but 1 of the things that I have found supremely useful on this journey is the willingness that other people have had to give advice and guidance on this journey. And the reminder to myself that I need to go and ask for it at certain times. Ah because you will not know everything you need to know as you go out on this journey and therefore one of your primary jobs is to learn as much as possible as quickly as possible particularly about your customers in your market before you run out of money. And therefore being able to be confident to speak to people and go listen guys I'm stuck I don't know what to do with this problem that problem is amazing and therefore having in that peer group mentorship group around you becomes absolutely crucial. Um, but at all times. 

42:37.99 

chrissass 

Um, yeah. 

42:45.54 

Niall Riddell _Paua_ 

Managing your own personal energy and positivity and attitude to what you're trying to do is really key and on top of that there's a massive question about risk appetite. Um, and I think if you got the right combination of risk appetite. You can pull together your vision and your values and you can express them. In ah in the form of a company which can do good and shape the world for a better place then personally I would say to everyone. Why not have a shot and it might not be for everyone but realistically it is one of these things that Jeff kind of alluded to which is there is no special qualification as they said in Kung Fu Panda there is no secret ingredient. It's kind of up to you. 

43:26.59 

chrissass 

Well I'm glad that you got your advice from a cartoon that that's amazing. Um, but I hope the audience has enjoyed this episode. We're trying to give you a glimpse behind the curtain. You've got 3 hosts that were on the show regularly. We're always interviewing people. Um. Add comments, add questions go to the Youtube channel make sure you add comments because if you ask a lot of questions and things like that we'll do another episode like this. We'll go into whatever you want to know? we're happy to talk more. This has been really fun guys I want to thank you for spending the time today and sharing with the audience and thanks. 

44:00.55 

Niall Riddell _Paua_ 

Cheers! Really enjoyed it. 

44:00.86 

chrissass 

For audience we hope you've enjoyed another episode of the insider guide to energy. We're gonna see you again next week and don't forget to subscribe and get on our Youtube channel like I said you want more of this. You want to have specific questions answered of how we did what put them up on the Youtube channel and you'll get the answers. We'll talk to you again soon? Bye bye.