Dive into the captivating world of advanced carbon capture and sustainable energy solutions in Episode 158 of the IGTE Podcast, featuring Adam Goff, the Senior Vice President of Strategy at 8 Rivers. This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of Direct Air Capture (DAC), Hydrogen Energy Solutions, and the innovative strides in Ammonia Production, positioning 8 Rivers at the forefront of climate tech solutions.
Embark on a journey with us as Adam Goff expertly demystifies the complexities and potential of Direct Air Capture. Learn how 8 Rivers is pioneering this groundbreaking technology to extract CO2 directly from the atmosphere, offering a robust solution to global environmental challenges. We delve into the specifics of DAC, revealing how this process can revolutionize carbon capture and significantly contribute to worldwide CO2 reduction efforts.
The episode also delves into hydrogen's role as a sustainable energy source. Discover the cutting-edge methods employed by 8 Rivers to produce hydrogen from natural gas, capturing and storing carbon emissions in the process. Adam Goff shares insights into how this technology is paving the way for a cleaner energy future, where hydrogen could play a pivotal role.
Furthermore, we explore the Cormorant Clean Energy Project, an ambitious initiative by 8 Rivers focusing on ammonia production. Adam explains how this project is a leap forward in creating carbon-neutral fuels, demonstrating how ammonia can be utilized as an eco-friendly alternative in sectors like transportation and agriculture.
This episode is a treasure trove of information on the practical deployment of these technologies, economic considerations, and the policy frameworks shaping this innovative sector. Whether you're a professional in the energy sector, a climate tech enthusiast, or someone keen on sustainable solutions, this episode promises to enrich your understanding and spark curiosity.
Tune into IGTE Podcast Episode 158 for an enlightening conversation with Adam Goff, and discover the transformative potential of carbon capture and sustainable energy solutions with 8 Rivers.
Dive into the captivating world of advanced carbon capture and sustainable energy solutions in Episode 158 of the IGTE Podcast, featuring Adam Goff, the Senior Vice President of Strategy at 8 Rivers. This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of Direct Air Capture (DAC), Hydrogen Energy Solutions, and the innovative strides in Ammonia Production, positioning 8 Rivers at the forefront of climate tech solutions.
Embark on a journey with us as Adam Goff expertly demystifies the complexities and potential of Direct Air Capture. Learn how 8 Rivers is pioneering this groundbreaking technology to extract CO2 directly from the atmosphere, offering a robust solution to global environmental challenges. We delve into the specifics of DAC, revealing how this process can revolutionize carbon capture and significantly contribute to worldwide CO2 reduction efforts.
The episode also delves into hydrogen's role as a sustainable energy source. Discover the cutting-edge methods employed by 8 Rivers to produce hydrogen from natural gas, capturing and storing carbon emissions in the process. Adam Goff shares insights into how this technology is paving the way for a cleaner energy future, where hydrogen could play a pivotal role.
Furthermore, we explore the Cormorant Clean Energy Project, an ambitious initiative by 8 Rivers focusing on ammonia production. Adam explains how this project is a leap forward in creating carbon-neutral fuels, demonstrating how ammonia can be utilized as an eco-friendly alternative in sectors like transportation and agriculture.
This episode is a treasure trove of information on the practical deployment of these technologies, economic considerations, and the policy frameworks shaping this innovative sector. Whether you're a professional in the energy sector, a climate tech enthusiast, or someone keen on sustainable solutions, this episode promises to enrich your understanding and spark curiosity.
Tune into IGTE Podcast Episode 158 for an enlightening conversation with Adam Goff, and discover the transformative potential of carbon capture and sustainable energy solutions with 8 Rivers.
00:00.00
chrissass
Welcome to insiders' guide to energy I'm your host chris sass and with me is Jeff Mcaulay. This week, we’re going to talk about Direct Air Capture. Jeff, what did you think of this episode?
08:08.16
Jeff M_
Chris and this is something that I've been curious about for a while and what was fascinating for me is to understand where direct air capture can fit in the landscape of other carbon management technologies and in particular how the government incentives like 45 q in the tax code. Actually function for things like DAC.
08:29.63
chrissass
Um, I thought that the incentives were interesting. The price points were interesting and I had no idea that the humidity and the weather and where you put these things are important. But why don't we go ahead and go take him dive into this episode.
08:43.51
Jeff M_
That's great Chris so today we are joined by Adam Goff the Svp of strategy at 8 Rivers Capital Adam has a foundation sorry I need to skip that sorry 1 more time. Adam Goff is the Svp of strategy at 8 rivers capital before eight Rivers Adam was the chief of staff at clearpath a foundation that advances. Dispatchable, clean energy and it was at clearpath where he worked on the early development of 45 q carbon tax incentives so he's a great person to help guide us through. Past present and potential future of direct air capture Adam tell us more about 8 rivers and what you do.
08:22.31
Jeff McAulay
Adam it's really great to have you on the show I'm really excited to learn more about direct air capture and what you guys are doing with your advanced technology. Ah just start us off a little bit about 8 rivers and how your direct air capture approach is different than others that are out there.
08:37.79
A
Sure so 8 rivers. We've been around fifteen years now and we invent and commercialize carbon capture technologies. So direct air capture is actually the newest part of our portfolio. We've got over a decade experience first in power with yeah the alim cycle. Making power from fossil fuels with full carbon capture using a c o two driven cycle and then with hydrogen with something called a rh 2 and taking a lot of that expertise in knowledge on oxy combustion which is burning in pure oxygen and using c o two as a working fluid. So using co two carbon dioxide to help move heat around the system and. Manipulating those properties. We invented something in 2019 that pulls c o 2 directly from the air by using calcium the way I like to think about this is we're leveraging the oldest building material known to man right? We've been making coliseums and other things out of calcium for a very long time. This is how the romans you know? ah. Made those beautiful cities and roads we accelerate that process by which calcium absorbs c o 2 and becomes calcium carbonate ah by structuring it into a really high surface area. Solid absorbent. We can then have basically a row of fans. Um, that blows very. Immense volumes of air over that absorbent absorbing that co 2 and then we can recycle it back into a kiln that pops the co 2 off at high temperatures and we store it underground. So the result of all that work as co 2 goes from the air. It goes into our system.
10:05.91
A
And then it comes out in a pipeline that we can inject about a mile underground for permanent storage.
10:10.74
Jeff McAulay
Great and so how many it seems like there's multiple steps in the process. So compound question. What are the most important figures of merit in that process and then how much of that are you at 8 rivers doing. Absorbing the regeneration but then is it also the shipping and injection or is that handed off to others in the supply chain.
10:35.31
A
It's a great question. So as we think of the boundary limit of our project. Um, we will buy all the fuels in power. So we aren't you know we're going to need power. We're going to need some kind of fuel like natural gas and we're going to need someone to store the CO2 need someone to supply us with water. Need someone to supply us with calcium all of those are kind of outside of our boundary limit right? So we're buying those but that's a key part of the ecosystem. The things that we do is going to be both the air contactor. The thing that absorbs the C O two from the air and the kiln so the way of ah. Cow signing heating up that calcium carbon into about a °c ah capturing the c o two from that and compressing it. Um, all of this will do with partners when I say we do it. You know we invent a process but a lot of the work as you're pulling in a dozen plus. Companies with hundred years of experience each of these little subsystems and pulling that together into what is a process and a financeable plant.
11:33.54
chrissass
Now this is really exciting from the prospect of it's almost too good to be true. You know if if I can take carbon out of the air that that seems like a wild dream. Now I also know I think you guys were an xprize winner in in the past for this technology Doe is putting money behind the projects you're working on so folks are believing in this but the naysayers have that I've seen say hey this is really expensive. You just talked about water energy all these inputs so is this. Commercially viable yet or is this still kind of a government science experiment saying hey let's let's test this and get this going.
12:10.30
A
So there's a lot of questions there Chris I think it is totally right that this should be the most expensive way remove co 2 It is more expensive than anything else. We do right? It's definitely a better idea to not emit co 2 right? It's a better idea to use better light bulbs a better idea to capture that co 2 from the power plant. Before it disperses in the atmosphere and gets so hard to you know find and concentrate so no disagreement there I think the purpose and the service that director rcaps provides is there are some sectors where you don't really have other options right? You might have a remote steel plant in a place you need steel or I mean my favorite here is airplanes. But it is really expensive to find a way to do particularly over ocean transport so domestic flights I think we have a lot more options. But if you're talking about flying from New York to London or from San Francisco to Japan it's really expensive and what direct air capture does is. It's a cost ceiling as if we can do direct air capture. It. Two hundred and fifty dollars say per ton of co 2 removed if your solution to air travel is more expensive than that you should buy this instead and if it's less expensive. Great. You should use that biofuel and ah use your you know new electric plane or or whatever that solution might be so basically. This is our most expensive abatement option because anything that's more expensive. You shouldn't do it anymore. You should do this and so from our perspective it's going to be a small percentage of the decarbonization solution. We're talking. Let's say we get you know 2% market share of fifty billion Tons of co two that we're emitting.
13:43.38
A
That's a billion tons a year. So even if you're saying yes, this is a you know a couple percentage points of the total decarbonization problem from a business perspective for us a that's ah, a big deal. Um, we need to actually reduce all those 50000000000 tons of co two so we want to work on that problem. And it's a big enough opportunity that there's going to be space for multiple technologies in that space to say hey if you want to remove a billion tons a year if that costs you $100 per time that's a $100000000000 a year. Okay, that's a big enough market opportunity where we really should be investing in multiple solutions. Um. And we can't actually raise capital invest our own capital to do the expensive and you know multi-year process of delivering you know, physical infrastructure with new technology.
14:27.40
Jeff McAulay
Adam I really like that framing of dac as a last resort and a cost ceiling and so it's saying yes, do all those other things but this is the most expensive the last resort and something that was is important to have in the in the portfolio. Not that it is permission to keep emitting because it's going to be expensive. So you said two hundred and fifty bucks a ton is that the target I mean I'm assuming today you know it's still in the early technology development stage. So if you were to have an estimate of where it where it is. It's probably in the what. Thousand Two thousand bucks is where are you today and what's the target.
15:08.23
A
So I think publicly the industry's Target is $100 per ton. Um I think if we get close to a hundred dollars per ton I'll be happy. Um I think that's you know it's one of those targets is like green hydrogen is targeting a dollar per kilogram and it's kind of like. You're always aiming for it. Also with inflation is like oh is that ah is that $100 a ton and 2018 when you set that Target or is it like compound interest really changes changes the goal post there. So. That's the target I think where we are today I think a lot of the promiic so promising solutions are all sub $1000 and they're all over 200.
15:28.66
Jeff McAulay
Um.
15:32.36
Jeff McAulay
Ah, yeah, yeah.
15:45.53
A
And so it's really a range I think it's hard to compare apples to apples because they're all at different sizes right? So where we are um the first commercial plant we build are looking at in that 50000 to one hundred thousand tons a year of C O 2 range which on the 1 hand is a lot on the other hand is way way too small. Like our our commercial like the unit size. We want to be building out is about a million tons a year but we have to go through right stage d risking where we go from a thousand tons to a hundred thousand tons and so you have really fast declines till you get to about a million tons right? Just from scale right? It's much cheaper to build 1 big kiln than to build 1 small kn um. And so that's where you get the initial declines and then after that it's how fast you can improve your technology. Um and how fast you can drive risk out of the system and you know make it more of a you know, rinse and repeat ah solution which I think is an exciting thing about dac and an advantage it has over retrofitting a power plant. You should really be able to rinse and repeat it right? You could put it in the same place pulling the same air. You shouldn't have to customize it to build multiple plants in the same location.
16:50.69
chrissass
Now you, you've mentioned a bit about the process um of of what you do and and it seems you know, kind of intuitive you you you blow fan across some material it absorbs you do something with a material to have a transform and then you store it and you talk about a Kiln So What kind of energy is an energy podcast does it take. To do this and where do you get the energy.
17:12.52
A
Sure so ah, calciation is typically thermal right? So we are looking at thermal calciation in a high oxygen environment with carbon capture. So if you're burning a kiln today which there's thousands across the world and the paper industry and the cement industry and the lyme industry they're burning anything. They can get their hands on. Tires Coal Wood chips gas I mean kilns really, it's kind of toss trash into these things to some degree. Um, we'll probably burning gas right is kind of the baseline fuel that you'd look at here makes it really easy to get to those high temperatures and because we're burning in a pure oxygen environment. We can capture all that co 2 um you could run a kiln on electricity. There are companies that are developing electric kilns we are agnostic in terms of the fuel for the kiln the thing we care about is it needs to be low emissions and it needs to be twenty four seven and it needs to be at a reasonable cost. So our view right now is the the best solution that hits those 3 pillars that we can get reasonable cost. And low emissions. 24 7 is um a stmo fuel with carbon catcher. Ah, because believe it or not twenty four seven carbon freee power is pretty as someone who's trying to produce it on a different part of business. There isn't surplus supply in the Us right? and it's difficult to get and the electric kiln technology. You know. Has is more is newer than thermal calciation. That's so that's where we're focused. We do need to capture the C O two from that fuel though right? because you're putting co 2 into the system that comes with the fuel you have to capture it and store it along with the co 2 that you're capturing from the air.
18:41.63
Jeff McAulay
Yeah, this leads to a really interesting question which is I'm thinking about this in an efficiency unit. How much energy does it take is this gigajoules per ton how much energy input does it take to get a ton of co 2 captured and and sequestered and then you could also do that on a C O Two balance basis so you're missingtting co 2 from your natural gas. How many tons of co 2 Do you emit per ton of co 2 that you're capturing knowing that if that's the upside down. You're always racing to catch up because you have to capture. All of the co 2 that you're generating to capture the C O two like there's it seems like you could um, get out of balance fairly quickly. There.
19:24.45
A
Yeah I think one of the things so the energy use really matters because of the emissions associated right? So the key thing is this if it's costing us a hundred bucks per ton to capture a a drift from there. We can't really be omitting any in the process. It does it really doesn't make any sense and so you are gonna have have really upstream emissions is what's gonna oh. CO 2 emissions from mining limestone or if you're using gas what kind of gas. Do you use or there is there any leakage in the pipeline you have to account for every single thing all the way upstream but it's going to end up being you know, five or ten percent where okay I captured one point one tons of co 2 from the atmosphere what we call gross is the total capture. Maybe the amount of carbon removal I did is 1 ton right? So that kind of it's it's that order of magnitude where you've got about 10% the energy use. There's a lot of variables that will change it based on technology and also the specific conditions you assume of where you're doing it. The co 2 content of the air, Etc, etc. But it's on the order of. You know, 5 to 10 gigajoules per ton of co 2 somewhere like you know, ah in that range and a thing that I think um that I don't think is widely agreed. Um is I think capex is way more important than opex and energy here. Um, if you want to get to $100 per ton if you're at plant 20 energy is the driver. And it's it's that squeezing out the energy. But if we're talking about a solution. That's a couple hundred bucks a ton even if I'm at the high end and I'm ten gigajoules per ton of co 2 You guys know how much a gigajoule is in the Us right now, right? like a gigajoules four bucks like it's just really not a. Ah.
20:58.84
A
Capex is that initial driver when you're building a new technology is it's really expensive to build these large facilities and your initial cost of Capital is high right? You're not at the solar cost of Capital ah yet and so we are we think long-term driving energy out of the system but I would love to see more innovation. Um, for other people's technologies really focused on the capex side of it and not as focused on the perfect energy Efficient system.
21:23.77
chrissass
Now you start talking about the cost of building and operating these systems and that leads to subsidies and government programs. Um, what's going on in the government space to help these kind of Programs Ira and other type of projects or state level.
21:37.90
A
The Us has had really great climate policy the last couple of years I just I think it's really impressive to see what congress has done. They set up multiple programs through multiple bills. They set up something called the direct aircap hub program through a bill a couple years ago that bipartisan basis passed congress um that funds some of the initial it funds about half the capex or half the design cost for a bunch of different hubs around direct air capture. So direct air capture doesn't really exist yet right? This is a new industry. It's not you can't there's like 1 or 2 of these plants at any significant scale around the world and so they're funding. A lot of plants to be designed to be conceptualized a smaller number of plants to be built in a bunch of different locations in the us and that's on the order of you know a couple billion dollars total so that they're doing some of that early funding. We are a recipient and so we're thankful to the department of energy's leadership here. We've got a ah project in Alabama. They're funding us to do the design work on our first commercial plant and that's through what's called the seedac hub. It's one of these acronyms that you know all these projects love to use acronyms and Alabama is really the perfect place for us to build not just the first project but also is a great future location for larger scale deployments. It's humid. We love humid. And a lot of doc technologies that humidity really improves your kinetics. So that's ah, a big boost but the bigger deal here and what I think is really driving all of the direct our capture industry really to focus on the us is both that we have cotwo infrastructure which is.
23:09.70
A
We've got thousands of miles of co 2 pipelines. We've got great geological maps and we've got lots of developers doing the work to store the C O two underground which it's easy to take for granted but other countries just don't have it or they're you know a decade behind us and then maybe most importantly, here, there's a large tax credit ah for pulling cotwo from the air that buys down a lot of the cost. Ah, this is how the Us bought down the costs to solar and wind. We've had tax credits for solar arm and wind for over around thirty years now ah called with more acronyms here the Itc and the ptc are those acronyms for those who aren't familiar with the lingo in carbon capture. We have 45 q don't you know you don't want to know where all these acronyms come from but 45 q will pay you one hundred and eighty dollars per ton of co 2 from the air and so what that does. That's a signal that hey you have an initial way to get that cost down from expense too expensive to buy all the way down to expensive. But. Reasonable for some early buyers to purchase so your first plants are going to be the most expensive but we have this tax credit that lasts for 12 years that will help pay down some of the cost of these first facilities.
24:12.52
chrissass
So the the thing about that I guess the 1 thing that I'd read in some of the government documents is kind of the monitoring the reporting and verification right? So if I'm going to pay you x and you're going to go sequester grit somewhere. What happens so you've you've now captured it. you've done. what you've done you've you've put it in 1 of these carbon storage. How do? How do you validate that it's permanently gone and.
24:39.40
A
It's a so we've got 2 stages of that um mrv for us and I think mrv is a big deal monitoring report and reporting verification is a big deal on carbon removal I will say it's the easiest for direct air capture. So I think one of the reasons why it's a huge deal. Is for a lot of these more nature-based solutions which are fantastic monitoring. You know, enhanced rock weathering as an example or soil carbon is a technically complicated challenge. It's both extremely important and also it's just hard. Um, the nice thing with rectar capture is is not hard right inside of the plant itself. We have to measure how much co 2 is in the air. When it blew into your fans and how much co 2 is in the air when it leaves right? and we can validate that against how much co 2 is coming into the pipeline right? And how much of that is from your fuel and how much of that is from the air. So that's kind of stage one. That's how much co 2 remove stage 2 is you inject it. Underground. How do you make sure it stays there right. Um, and so Epa has a program where they have all sorts of different rules for how you monitor it over time how you track where that co 2 is migrating underground. It does stabilize and in many cases actually becomes a rock right? So it'll it'll mineralize in this porous standstone over the you know over a hundred yearish timeframe so not not immediately. But we're going to have partners who do that so we aren't subsurface people subsurface people those are the geologists who spend all their time thinking in millions of years timesframes you know and a mile plus down. Ah the us has been monitoring this stuff for forty plus years. So.
26:05.55
A
For a lot of for some of the processes in the oil industry. They've been injecting a c o 2 downhole for decades. The difference now is we're not injecting it for oil right? We're injecting this co 2 nothing comes back up. We're injecting it in places where we know it can be safely stored and so that co 2 storage partner of ours has a program with the Epa where they can. Monitor the pressure they can monitor where the c o two goes they have different wells and different models. But I'm happily a little bit ignorant on the deep details of how you manage and monitor where that plume goes.
26:35.19
Jeff McAulay
Yeah, and what's important that you just mentioned, especially for folks that are familiar with 45 q a lot of the incentives. There are actually for the C O two to be injected for enhanced oil recovery in basically fossil fuel production. My understanding. What I think you're saying is the one hundred and eighty bucks per ton for direct air capture does not require enhanced oil recovery so you are doing permanent so you're not just enabling further oil production. And you're not required to to receive that hundred and eighty bucks and 45 q correct. Ah.
27:11.13
A
You're required not to right? So the one hundred and eighty bucks as you are promising. No nothing comes back up. You inject the c o two and that's it right? So that one hundred and eighty bucks in other parts. So there's different parts of the 45 q tax credit and there's always this bifurcation where the federal government always pays you more to not produce oil. So the the pure sequestration always has a higher tax credit in the way they're designed indirect air capture that gap is massive. So if you were to do enhancement recovery which we're not planning to do um you would get $130 per ton.
27:35.35
Jeff McAulay
That.
27:42.55
A
Versus one hundred and eighty that $50 per ton gap frankly too big for anyone to want to do it I think there's that's there's that driver I think the second driver is that we have customers right? We have customers who are buying carbon removal. Um, most of them don't. Want to be involved with enhancer recovery right? If you're you know a big tech company or a big airline and this is your you know most expensive but highest quality. You know, sexiest most interesting futuristic way to to reduce your co 2 I think.
27:58.35
Jeff McAulay
No.
28:11.97
A
People like the idea and I think rightly so of having this be pure storage and not part of the Fossil Fuel production chain.
28:17.22
Jeff McAulay
So where this is going if we think about that you know you're at Eight hundred bucks per ton. Let's say today you need to get it down to 100 to 201 leg of that school one piece of the puzzle is one hundred and eighty bucks a ton from 45 q the next is subsidized infrastructure for the capex from the the hubs and the remaining piece is offtake who are the buyers of these tons given that they're kind of a unique flavor. They're different from other ah carbon removal tons.
28:53.45
A
Yeah, so in the near term the buyers we are seeing are tech companies financial parties and airlines right? And that's if you the the public deals you've seen done involve the biggest tech companies. You know the biggest airlines the biggest banks. Um, so those are the early buyers. But I think of who the long term buyers are um when we're talking about Tens to hundreds of millions of tons of co 2 you need someone who has tens and to hundreds of millions of tons of co 2 to get rid of you know who can afford to pay dac prices and has no better option right? so. That is you end up with things like air travel I think air travel is the perfect example here of you know the product can handle that price. Ah you know air air tickets are expensive. Um they emit you know on the order of a billion tons a year. So. It's big enough to scale ah to do this. And they don't really have great other options I don't think it will only be direct air capture when we look at you know air travel. We think you're going to be able to get some biofuels in there or you know there might be more trains that we can do there might be electric planes for certain routes. But we think direct air capture is going to be part of that solution. So it's that kind of industry right? It's not It's not power plants. It's not your cars. It's not these things where we have better decarbonization solutions. It's those large hard tab 8 industries.
30:11.31
chrissass
Now, let me ask I'm I'm the the master of asking the silly question but I just don't know so location you're in Alabama ah, you're technical advising or working on a project in Alabama from what I recall. Um. Location matter is it really significant if I'm close to the industry I mean air travel is kind of ah all over so where do these facilities need to go.
30:33.88
A
So there's 2 ways to think about it I think from the customer customer someone who's emitting co 2 somewhere in the world. It doesn't matter where the direct hair capture facility is right? a like planes steel plants boats direct air capture is pulling Co 2 from a dispersed atmosphere right? So you don't. Least from what we can tell you don't need to be located near where the customer is emitting it. Ah but it does matter where you locate these for the technology I think there's an initial thought of oh if you're pulling cotwo from the air you could put it anywhere and as you get more into the details of your technology you realize the technology has preferences right? It prefers certain temperatures it prefers, certain humidities and needs certain energy sources. So there are certain places that are the right places to put direct to our capture for us. You know the us southeast is far and away the top option. Both from a climate perspective. The availability of 0 ero-carbon energy the incentives that are in place and the availability of c o 2 storage but it varies by technology so we do think you're going to see different just like with you know between solar and wind and offshore wind and geothermal those technologies go different places I think the advantage dac has direct aircap has is. You know geothermal is located in a bunch of different places but it has to plug into where people live right? You have to have power lines that get it to where it's consumed. That's not true with direct air capture right? We don't need to transport the C O two to the airplane or to the large you know intermodal shipping vessel. Um.
32:02.88
A
We can pull it from the air and the atmosphere is doing that transport for us.
32:06.81
chrissass
Cool. Well I think we've covered a lot of ground I Guess the question I have now is how does someone end up in this business is an emerging new space. So you've ended up in a very unusual and kind of cool technology space. How'd you end up here.
32:22.83
A
I wouldn't say it was totally on purpose. Ah I was working on carbon capture for a long time so I was actually in the policy space before so I was chief of staff at clearpath which works on energy innovation with congress the doe and so I'm far too familiar with all the different acronyms. Worked on some of the early iterations of 45 q back in 2018 before it was you know, upgraded and modified in 2022 so I have that policy. Ah that policy background and through that I was working with technology companies and I think realized it just looked really fun. It's like wow. I want to not just put the incentives to help put the incentives in place for capturing co 2 or building you know, zero carbon infrastructure as those incentives started to get in place I wanted to go help actually build those projects and so I knew the folks at 8 rivers from that work at clearpath and so I joined the company in 2018 thinking I would be the policy person right. And do the policy the communication to engage with governments. Anyone who's been in a business, especially a small business knows you end up wearing 6 different hats and the things that bring in revenue and build business value that kind of rise to the top and so I ended up a lot more in the project development and technology development than I think I thought I would back in 2018 but it's been. Ah, total blast I mean it's been an amazing place to work and for anyone who's thinking about making the jump from something that isn't hard tech or isn't climate tech. It's a really really fun space to be in. It's intellectually stimulating you work with fantastic talent and if you like to work on hard problems.
33:51.52
A
Ah, these problems are hard and they matter and so that really makes it easy to go to work every day.
33:53.93
chrissass
But that's an amazing story. It sounds like a fun journey that you've had I guess as we close this episode are there any other new and emerging text that 8 rivers is doing for those that may not know all the work you guys are doing that you want to cover real quick as we close up here.
34:07.30
A
Yeah, that'd be great. So 8 rivers. We have a portfolio and this thing that makes us different. We do carbon capture on power with the aum cycle we do hydrogen and we do direct to our capture so where we're a 3 or 4 trick pony right with with more ideas coming here as well. Ah, the thing we announced yesterday. We're very excited about is we have this breakthrough technology for making hydrogen from natural gas called adrh two that can get higher efficiencies and higher rates of capture by using co two to help us reform that fuel into hydrogen and we announced our first project which is called Cormorant. Clean energy project down in ah port arthur Texas to produce ammonia ah from natural gas with full carbon capture. We're capturing all that co 2 and we actually send that ammonia all the way to South Korea is the plan where it can be used to help co-fire in coal plants. So we can actually reduce the use of coal. And you can actually burn ammonia instead of that coal which ammonia nhthree it doesn't have any co 2 so when it burns it doesn't emit any co 2 so we announced that for the first time yesterday. It's a great project. It's working with our major investor skgroup who who's been really a fantastic partner for us. They're the second biggest conglomerate and. Korea last I checked so that's the thing we're all excited about around here in the office is we got to take that thing. We've been working on for a long time and bring it into the public eye.
35:27.42
chrissass
Well, that's amazing. We hope to have more information about that on insiders guide in the future I want to thank you so much for coming on and sharing your journey and your company's journey with us today. It's been a pleasure to have you on the podcast.
35:40.00
A
No Chris and Jeff the pleasure is mine. Thanks for the questions and I think we could have gone for a couple more hours if you let us.
35:45.00
chrissass
For our audience, we hope you’ve enjoyed this recording as much as we’ve had making it. What an exciting journey, Direct Airc Capture, future, 8 rivers, a lot of great content. Adam we appreciate your visit. For those of our audience who want to get a chance to meet us, we are going to be headed to distributech international. We are an official media partner of distributech. Come on down to Orlando. See us on February 26th – 29th at Distributech international. Thats all for today folks, we’ll see you the next time again on the Insider’s Guide to Energy podcast.