This week, Chris is joined by Arina Khotimsky, Co-President of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) Energy & Climate Club and a Senior at MIT. She attended the COP27 Conference in Egypt at the beginning of November 2022. In this episode, Arina discusses her perspective as a student and first-time attendee. We will delve into some hot topics, speakers and her perspective on this yearly United Nations Climate Change Conference.
This week, Chris is joined by Arina Khotimsky, Co-President of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) Energy & Climate Club and a Senior at MIT. She attended the COP27 Conference in Egypt at the beginning of November 2022. In this episode, Arina discusses her perspective as a student and first-time attendee. We will delve into some hot topics, speakers and her perspective on this yearly United Nations Climate Change Conference.
05:00.90
chrissass
Welcome to Insider's Guide o Energy, I'm your host Chris Sass and today we're gonna talk about COP27 and with me is Arina Khotimsky, welcome to the program. Well, it's a pleasure to have you here.
05:08.89
Arina Khotimsky
Um, ah thank you Chris. It's a pleasure to be here.
05:14.13
chrissass
I saw a post that you put on LinkedIn that said to you just come back from cop 27 and I quickly reached out to you and said hey yeah I'd love to have you on the program to share your experiences but before we do that. Let's find out why you even ended up there. So how did you end up going to the cop conference.
05:29.31
Arina Khotimsky
Yeah, um, so honestly I think this has to start way back. Um, at my sophomore year of college. Actually so this was during covid we were all virtual and a friend of mine was organizing the annual MIT energy hackathon which is an event we put on entirely run by students. Where we invite companies to propose challenge space challenges in the energy space and students get to work and solve those challenges over the course of the weekend and my friend was organizing the first ever virtual hackathon and she asked if I wanted to be part of the organizational team and I care about the environment I care about sustainability and I knew I wanted to. Pursue that in some way in college. So I thought that this would be a great opportunity to explore and that was my introduction to the mit energy and climate club and the mit energy community overall and from there I've stayed active in the mit energy and climate club. Um I had a blast organizing the hackathon.
06:24.19
Arina Khotimsky
As part of the team the following year I was one of the co-directors and now I'm one of the co-presidents of the mit energy and climate club and do my best to promote information on energy and sustainability on campus and over this past Summer mit actually reached out to students and sent an application for if you. To join the mit delegation to cop 27 um and it sounded like an incredible opportunity and of course I applied. Um and was one of the lucky students who was selected to go.
06:51.73
chrissass
So you were fortunate enough to get selected to get sent over there by your University representing the University did you have an agenda did they have an ascii view to go and represent the University in some way. What is mit looking to get out of the conference.
07:08.90
Arina Khotimsky
Yeah, so in particular for the mit delegation. They were co-sponsoring one panel. Um, but for the students that went it really was that they invited a diverse set of students. There were 2 undergraduate students. Um and a few masters students as Well. And the idea there is we come from different areas of mit different programs different student organizations and to really bring back what we learn and what we experienced at cop 27 to campus. Um, so then that can impact our organizations in some way.
07:39.00
chrissass
Okay, so we know a little bit about who you are. You're engaged in energy and climate and you're part of Mit Community. So tell me about the experience you went to the conference I've heard mixed reviews about the organization of the conference I've heard that there you know some of the feedback from some of my colleagues was mixed on how. Organized it was but how was the event for you personally.
08:03.24
Arina Khotimsky
Well, it certainly was the largest event I have ever been to hands down. Um, so I sympathize with the organizational part of it. It was an enormous space with different shuttles running throughout the day different events going on locations of events changing last minute. Um, but. I think that aside it truly was the most diverse event I've also ever been to? Um, and it was really neat to be able to walk around go to events put on by different countries, different organizations. Um hear the national statements from each country about. What their priorities are and what the most urgent challenges are when it comes to climate change for them and I think overall it was a great experience I know in my LinkedIn post where I talk about this. Um, of course it's not all sunshine and roses. Um, one of the things that you do realize is. Ah, certain countries. Want 1 thing other countries want the exact opposite. Um, and this is where you understand that it becomes so challenging to negotiate at the international level. Um, yeah.
09:07.24
chrissass
So, I mean I Guess what are some of the takeaways that you got I mean I think we have the news articles of you know, wealthier countries maybe signing up for some responsibility economically to help countries through climate Change. What are some of the hot topics that. You sat through and you thought were extremely compelling to you and they're going to be interesting to you.
09:27.91
Arina Khotimsky
Um, yeah, 1 topic that I've really been following is ah how the war in Europe currently between Russia and Ukraine is impacting the energy. Um in Europe right now and also broadly around the world. Um I went to 1 event in particular. Um, I think I wrote down the title here um impact of Russia's war against Ukraine on European ah climate policies and that was a really fascinating event. They had a few representatives um on the panel and one of the things they mentioned is that prior to the war. Ukraine was submitting a new nationally determined contribution or ndc goal. Um, as part of the Paris commitments to reduce the amount of co two that the country releases and then the war broke out. So of course there's no way that you can abide by those goals and targets that you set for yourself anymore. And what do you do when all of your goals become meaningless because your country is engaged in an award. Um and that I think was really touching. There was an activist on the panel who had been involved um in pushing Ukraine towards more renewable and sustainable energy. Um, but was now working to keep the natural gas. Industry alive simply to provide heating and electricity for everyone in the country at the most basic level. Um and understanding the impact that this will have on Ukraine and Europe broadly um is something that I've really been following and I think is really interesting. Um, there is a few partnerships and initiatives announced as well.
10:57.35
Arina Khotimsky
Um, during one of the events at the Us pavilion. Um John Kerry from the United States was speaking and announced how the United States a few other countries in Ukraine were partnering to promote the use of advanced nuclear energy. Um, as a source of sustainable energy that could be used in central and Eastern Europe um so you really do hear varied effects about this war and it's tough because of course there is the negative of I mean people are fighting for their lives but in some ways the industry is moving forward and it's interesting to really see how these effects will play out.
11:32.67
chrissass
So was there any conversation about the energy kind of I mean the energy gas was already in a bit of a challenge in European policy before the war even broke out right? Gas had had a bumpy ride even before that. So. I Think a number of professionals would say Yes, there's an impact but it's not the only impact I mean if you look at the economy right now you look the overhead from um Covid Hangover any conversation about that because I mean I think the economy is also driving a lot of what folks at least in the European power industry are looking to do and making invests. Going forward.
12:07.39
Arina Khotimsky
Um, so it was sorry conversations on the economic.
12:08.18
chrissass
On just a general economics of the world today in the impact on climate change and on the energy independence that people say they want but then the investment in in renewable energy because the economy is a bit tricky at the moment right.
12:22.99
Arina Khotimsky
Yes, definitely yeah and um, there was a lot of conversations about that as well. I guess even beyond Ukraine um I went to there were some events that talked about development of energy and investment of energy. Um in more developing markets in Africa. And in these areas they are rich in natural resources. Um and natural gas and who's to say that these countries shouldn't um, be using these natural resources to provide for their economies when um, other developed countries had been doing that for decades. Um, and. It is um I guess yeah, um, economically what's the right move and to be what should we do to be able to phase down the use of Fossil Fuels um but then allow other countries to keep growing. Um and this is something that came up in the final. Um, negotiations at cop 27 you know, um at cop 26 there had been talk of perhaps next cop were actually going to put into words um, phasing down fossil fuels and a lot of the protests that were going on at the event this year despite um, the kind of word on the street that hf really. Is cracking down on protests their um protest civil protesting there really were a number of activists within the cop 27 venue who still were able to stand up and say what needs to be said um about phasing down fossil fuels. Unfortunately, that types did not make it in the final.
13:57.33
Arina Khotimsky
Negotiations of cop 27 um so I guess for the foreseeable future. Um I do think that we're going to see a growth of fossil fuel simply for the economic development. Um, that countries need and demand. Um, but that is certainly a hot topic. Um.
14:13.60
chrissass
So what country did you hear speak that surprised you what 1 did you kind of go huh I didn't I didn't think they'd have this position or it was alter. You know, not where you thought they might be maybe you thought they were more progressive and they were less progressive but were there any surprise.
14:14.89
Arina Khotimsky
As we go forward.
14:32.90
chrissass
Speakers that you heard are representations that you heard.
14:35.80
Arina Khotimsky
Yeah, um, actually one of the days. Um, so again going I guess going back to the whole um complicated venue setup. Ah so the main zone where we spend most of our time as delegates with the badge access was the blue zone. Which is where the negotiations were taking place which is where all of the countries had their pavilions. Um, there were a few other public zones open to anyone who wished to um, join and those were the green zone and there was also this area called the climate action zone which I visited one day. And also the um Saudi Arabia Green initiative pavilions which were their own separate venue. Um, and we actually stumbled upon them by accident. We were just walking down the street we had taken the wrong shuttle to the wrong place and we decided to check it out and go in um and Saudi Arabia um had is a whole pavilion setup about innovations in climate sustainability going on in the country and ways that they're trying to transform their economy slowly from oil and gas. Um and petrochemicals and I think that was a really interesting perspective because you see. Ah, them pivoting towards more sustainable products towards um, designing new solar panels that instead of being made out of a metal and glass frame are made out of a plastic frame. Um, and the idea there is well they're lighter.
16:04.90
Arina Khotimsky
To transport mains are cheaper to transport. Um in some ways that makes them more durable to where you're planning to set them up. Um, but then you also see that well this plastic is probably coming from the petrochemicals that Saudi Arabia um is extracting and then refining so it's really a fine balance and I think that was really interesting to hear. Um, and meet people who are really passionate about um, bringing forward change but also keeping it sort of in the back of your mind that it's not just an easy straightforward. Um, there's definitely compromises that have to be made at every single level.
16:36.43
chrissass
Um, you mentioned John Kerry speaking who else spoke on behalf of the us that you heard speak.
16:42.24
Arina Khotimsky
Yeah, um, so John Kery I was lucky enough to see in person he was at 1 of the panels at the us center um in doing an introduction and that event in particular was um I think the name of it was us conservative goals ah in climate change. And that was a fascinating panel that honestly was one of my favorite events. Um, because at the end of the day I'm going back to the United States this is where I can have the most impact and this is where um I have to be standing up and ah talking with other people and bringing change and that panel had um, a. 1 of the directors from the United States um citizens for responsible energy group which is a conservative oriented um organization that promotes um renewable sustainable um responsible energy policies and had the reams from citizens for responsible energy. Was there. As well as a number of us representatives from the house um were also speaking on the panel. It is really interesting to hear their opinions and their takes on the energy transition.
17:46.86
chrissass
So you mentioned that you go to mit now. Are you a graduate undergraduate student. Okay, so you're wrapping up at Mit you're you.
17:51.37
Arina Khotimsky
I am an undergraduate student I'm a senior.
17:58.50
chrissass
Mentioned in our pre-conversation before we started recording that you're applying to perhaps some graduate programs some prestigious graduate programs and assume that's an energy.
18:04.90
Arina Khotimsky
Yeah I'm planning on pursuing a masters in energy after I graduate.
18:10.58
chrissass
And I guess my question would be so you had this great Opportunity. You were exposed to a unique view of the world that and that many can't get First hand. How do you think that impact did you to what you want to do now in the future So has it changed. Your drive to how you want to make your impact to maybe ah you know for you know the energy transition to the future.
18:34.36
Arina Khotimsky
Yeah I think um 1 thing that you see so clearly going to an event like cop 27 um is there simply so many stakeholders all around the world in this issue and you can focus on it solely within the United States um but then there's also a global perspective where there are other people who are making progress or innovating in this space. Um, there's a lot to learn from them. There's also a lot of um work that can you can help by doing in other places in the world. Um, so this is something that I grew up in the United States I did my undergraduate degree in the United States and over the past years I've really been trying to get involved in projects or classes that discuss more on a global level like what are the challenges that we have in the energy transition. Um, and I think going to cop 27 really just emphasized that we need to be doing this in a global scale and with a global um bottom line in mind because climate change isn't just going to be impacting the United States is going to be impacting everyone um, and. Really I think this mindset of being a global citizen is something that I think is really important to me and something that I will kind of take with me wherever I go in the future.
19:55.61
chrissass
So do you believe from both the conference and your experience that we have the technology we need today to stave off climate change.
20:07.51
Arina Khotimsky
Ah, we have a lot of the technology I don't think we have all the technology um in an I guess an ideal World. We would have already developed nuclear that people trust and that is easily. Ah. Relocate it to new facility ah into new areas so we can spread it the use of it. Um, and also battery storage I think has a long way to go um carbon capture and storage is I know a something that has mixed opinions. But I do think that. Having progress on that will also be crucial to our energy transition and getting Keys stakeholders on board with any agreements that get made So some of those technologies already exist but lot I think is still to be developed. Um, but whatever we do already have um. There is a lot that can be implemented immediately because the technology is there.
21:00.62
chrissass
Ah, you mentioned a couple answers ago you talked about protesters making a point so you clearly have passion for climate change or activism and you were you were saying hey their voice didn't really get heard. Um.
21:06.70
Arina Khotimsky
Are.
21:13.55
chrissass
Do We need their voice Heard. It isn't the cop 27 conference the world getting together understanding. There's a problem or you think that it's just politics and business as usual, why do I need activists to go to a climate event like this where the world's trying to solve a problem together I Guess I'm just curious because you said it very passionately like. Hey their voice didn get heard so you didn't feel from that comment didn't feel like you believe that the people were taking this seriously and they needed to hear more input help me understand that.
21:32.43
Arina Khotimsky
Yeah, um.
21:44.60
Arina Khotimsky
Yeah, so I think of all of the points. So of all the reasons that pop 27 gets criticized. 1 point that you can't criticize it on is that it is a platform that puts the voices. Um. On climate change across the entire spectrum on the world stage including activists who might not normally be able to get across to the rest of the world who might be working in a small community and um in a nation that is going to be underwater if nothing happens. Um. With rising sea levels and climate change but they're there in front of the venue being filmed by film crews from around the world and getting their message across and I think that is something that makes off 27 really an important place for protesters to participate and really make sure that their voice is heard. Um, I know one of the pavilions that I didn't expect to spend so much time and I ended up going to a number of events was the children in youth pavilion and I think the energy there very much was of this is our time and we need to do something now and I think that was just a very inspiring place to be. Um, it was the first time that a cop conference had a youth children and youth pavilion I think that is maybe um, a small win relative to negotiations that are happening but something that's really cool and I'm looking forward um to keeping an eye on in future cops.
23:09.24
chrissass
I personally believe that energy and energy transition is 1 thing a young person can make a difference in. You know we mentioned earlier in the show I talked about our future leaders program and the content that these eth students put together for the podcast and the concept that podcast. Came out when I was talking to and saying hey you know what? you just finished your master's degree from eth. You guys can actually make a difference. You don't have to go work for a big company and do crazy things you know, even as a 20 something you can actually change the world and that was their concept to start that that young folks can make a difference in energy. Um I think. You know a conference when you have world leaders together. It's a bit more complex so the more energy you do the harder. You realize the situation is right? You start out and you say well we should not use hydrocarbons they're just horrible and then you realize that life as we know it probably won't exist if we stop them all tomorrow. So how do you get a transition in a way that gives will quality a life.
23:56.10
Arina Khotimsky
Um.
24:04.26
chrissass
So I Guess you know you got to see the world stage. Um, you know one thing is you said it's one of the largest conferences you've ever been To. So is that an ironic thing that that people fly in from all over the world for this big conference air conditioned in the desert. To go talk about climate Change. Do you not find that somewhat ironic.
24:24.67
Arina Khotimsky
Absolutely And um I think I touched upon this in my post as well. That um, but there is greenwashing at Cul happening um countries are going to be celebrating their achievements in sustainability.
chrissass
This green washing that that question go ahead just down.
00:00.31
Arina Khotimsky
Absolutely I touched upon this in my LinkedIn post that there is greenwashing at cop countries are going to show up companies are going to show up and applaud the achievements that they're making in sustainability. And reducing their carbon emissions without even kind of considering well this is the smallest fraction possible to get to net zero and that in some ways is sort of confusing. The bottom line is well we need to reduce our carbon emissions to the point where. They're not increasing year on-year and that is something that you need to show up there ready to be aware of you can't just take every single word for word but really be there and certainly these achievements are great and they're in the right direction and I think that's what matters is overall. As a conference as a community. We've acknowledged that this is an issue and we need to make change. Um and from here on out now we just need to keep the pressure and get that transition going faster.
01:08.90
chrissass
Now did other people that went with you from the delegation either on Faculty speak or were there other folks from Mit that actually spoke at the conference.
01:18.94
Arina Khotimsky
Yeah, so there were a few other professors and there was also a number of other students who went in week two to my knowledge. The students who went in week two ah didn't participate in any of the panels. But I know one of the students that we were in touch with. Before the event we had some group chats going with other students in the Cambridge area. Um, and from other universities and one girl that I met for the first time was helping to organize an event at the children youth pavilion and that one I think was really impactful because kind of going back to this irony of. Who gets to fly thousands of miles to the middle of the desert for this important conference. Um, so she works with a non-profit called restless development and what they were talking about is all the voices that don't get represented at cop what happens to them. And they had reached out put together videos with a number of individuals who were active in the sustainability space or in the energy space but simply didn't have the means the resources the opportunity the accreditation by an organization to go to the conference to. Ask them about the work that they're doing record their messages and be able to share these messages with the conference one of the campaigns that they spoke about in this panel was the missing person campaign and I thought this was particularly clever where they shared profiles on these organizers saying hey.
02:49.52
Arina Khotimsky
Have you seen this person. They're missing from the cop 27 conference they were last seen doing this and all these people are working on incredible work like they're um, trying to increase the um protection of Mangroves. Um, they're working to promote energy in their communities. And I think that in some ways is frustrating because these are voices that deserve to be um, part of the conversation but are not present at the cop 27 conference. Um, and I think finding ways to broadcast their messages. Um is something that the children Youth pavilion truly succeeded in doing at the conference. And I hope is able to do in the future too.
03:29.74
chrissass
So you came back passionate you sounded like you were passionate before you left. Did you build a network or meet some people that you think will help change your direct trajectory of your future.
03:33.95
Arina Khotimsky
So.
03:42.44
Arina Khotimsky
Um, so for a few days I actually was sick and I did try to keep away from other people and wear a mask so that was that was probably the most unfortunate part of the conference. But as soon as I felt better I was back in the room I met a few I met students from. A number of different universities and I think making connections with other young people is so important because energy and sustainability is such a vast topic and it's easily discouraging in some ways we're working against a race that it feels like we have no chance of winning and. Think having other people kind of in the same position as you are at the same age with the same aspirations and the same understanding of the energy transition is just really wonderful to have that support network and to learn from each other and see what's possible. What's out there. So I'm really thankful to have met those students. Um, and then also I guess on a more professional level interacting with some of the panellists that I went to um, another one of my favorite events was a panel put on um, about spreading ah solar access to remote communities around the world. Um, and this was sponsored by sustainable energy for all see for all um, and the panel had representatives of remote communities in Canada Indonesia and Papua New Guinea and they spoke of how um, remote solar micro-grids and installations truly have an impact in their communities and this was.
05:09.22
chrissass
Are the.
05:15.73
Arina Khotimsky
Really interesting to learn about um I'm currently working on a team of students at mit um, called earth bond we're um, a start-up that's trying to increase solar adoption in Nigeria so hearing the perspectives of these individuals and see-for all was really valuable and I'm looking forward to staying in touch and. Um, talking with Evan Geng advice for our project.
05:37.69
chrissass
But that sounds pretty amazing. It sounds like it was a life changing experience. It seems like you did a good job of representing your school there. Um now one final question I have is if you're trying to go again next time. Do you want to go to the next conference is that like a priority trying to figure out how to finagle that.
05:51.31
Arina Khotimsky
That's ah, that's a great question. That's a great question. So um I think I would not have even considered going if I did not have the support of mit. Um, since that would be exorbitantly expensive. Um, but also frankly I guess coming back to that. Well why are we all flying out here to the desert. Um I think certainly easily sending another student to have the same life changing experience would be a thousand times more important than sending me for a second time since I've seen it I know what's out there. Um I think. Whenever I do return to a cop in the future. Um I hope it's um, at a point where I can say this is the impact that I've had in the world and this is how much closer we are to net zero I think that's when I would want to return.
06:39.71
chrissass
Awesome I appreciate you spending your time and sharing your experience for their audience and insiders guide. Thank you so much for being on today's podcast yes and for our audience I hope you've enjoyed this content as much as I have.
06:46.64
Arina Khotimsky
Yeah, thank you Chris and happy thanksgiving.
06:55.17
chrissass
Ah, don't forget to subscribe comment share this episode with your friends for our future leaders program. Please share this as well and we look forward to talking to you again on Insider's guide to energy bye.